Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

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zenman
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Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

Hi,

I'm not familiar with the Tibetan tummo or candali yoga-tradition. I'd like to ask if they describe an experience in which the kundalini/candali rises the central channel up above the head and then settles into the heart area for good never to rise or descend again? After this all kundalini traffic in the spine ends.

Thanks.
Simon E.
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by Simon E. »

No.
Its a temporary phenomenon.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

Simon E. wrote:No.
Its a temporary phenomenon.
What do you mean? What is temporary phenomenon?
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

Hallo? Any tummo-wise here?
Motova
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by Motova »

I don't think anyone will answer your question on this forum. Though you may have better luck posting it in Buddhist Tantra Talk, and receiving a pm.
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

Why not? What is wrong with my question? There are countless public descriptions of the described kundalini-dissolution in the hindu yoga scene. Are there none in buddhist? Is that the issue? Is this considered a secret for only initiated?

Edit: I thought Motova's Buddhist Tantra Talk is a separate forum but it is a section on this forum. The moderator may move this thread there if this is in a wrong place.
Motova
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by Motova »

zenman wrote: Is this considered a secret for only initiated?
Yes, probably.

Though if not, then it still won't be discussed on a forum like this. That's why I suggested you taking this to Buddhist Tantra Talk and PMs.

Or you could always find a qualified teacher to explain it to you.

What use is it to you if you can't even practice it?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

I see. I am interested in the matter as I have a background in hindu tantra.
ngodrup
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by ngodrup »

Typically, but not always, you would have completed ngondro.
Definitely, you must have received empowerment into a Highest Yoga Tantra
such as Chakrasamvara. Generally, you will have completed the generation stage
of that deity before exploring Tummo which is part of the completion stage. Usually
that would happen within a closed three year retreat.

Only sometimes are these teachings given earlier-- by oral instruction, not written.

There are certain similarities between Hindu and Buddhist tantras, but there are
many more differences. View is a big component, but it doesn't end there. You simply
cannot extrapolate based on what you've read in one system and port it over to another.
Even within Buddhist tantras themselves there are significant differences between
lineages.
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

OK. I think my question is rather simple.

>I'd like to ask if they describe an experience in which the kundalini/candali rises the central channel up above the head and then settles into the heart area for good never to rise or descend again? After this all kundalini traffic in the spine ends.

My own experience is according to this statement, as are the statements of several other hindu sources. Why am I interested to know whether it happens in buddhist tantra is because I'd like to know if it is a common experience to all men. I reason it should be. I have also a bunch of friends who have stated that all energy sensations in the spine have ended after a few to many years of meditation and various spine practices such as spinal breathing up and down the central channel. The root energy, kundalini shakti, has risen high above the head and then descended to take a permanent seat at the heart. This has preceeded many times of kundalini going up and down the spine, until the channel has become clear for this to take place. What has come with this kundalini action is the disappearance of the notion of I or me as a separate entity.

So my question is simple. Yes or no answers are fine for me :)

I don't know what Simon E. meant exactly with his message but if he thought that I meant this kundalini action being the end or a final attainment of the spiritual path, I didn't mean that. I was only speaking about the root energy.
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bryandavis
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by bryandavis »

I'd like to ask if they describe an experience in which the kundalini/candali rises the central channel up above the head and then settles into the heart area for good never to rise or descend again? After this all kundalini traffic in the spine ends.
No, because there is nothing going on with the spine and kundalini energy in tummo.
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bryandavis
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by bryandavis »

By reading this previous post a lot of misconception's can be cleared up.

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... ind#p37231" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

bryandavis wrote:
I'd like to ask if they describe an experience in which the kundalini/candali rises the central channel up above the head and then settles into the heart area for good never to rise or descend again? After this all kundalini traffic in the spine ends.
No, because there is nothing going on with the spine and kundalini energy in tummo.
Oh, OK. I thought tummo was all about that. Well... are any vajrayana practices concerned with breathing in the spine and kundalini? I guess the term "candali yoga" is familiar in vajrayana which obviously should have to do with this issue. Yes? No?
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

bryandavis wrote:By reading this previous post a lot of misconception's can be cleared up.

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... ind#p37231" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I got to the 8th page without references to kundalini...
Malcolm
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by Malcolm »

zenman wrote:
Oh, OK. I thought tummo was all about that. Well... are any vajrayana practices concerned with breathing in the spine and kundalini?
Nope, not at all.
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

Copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Kurt Keutzer

Kundalini yoga in the Natha Sampradaya and Vajrayana in Tibetan Buddhism both take their origin from the Mahasiddhas who were active in India from the 8th century to the 12th century. Kundalini yoga practices formed the core of the teachings of a number of these Mahasiddhas and are strongly represented in both Tibetan Buddhist practices and contemporary kundalini yoga practices. Kundalini yoga was spoken of as "Candali yoga" by these Mahasiddhas and became known as gTummo rnal 'byor in Tibet. Candali yoga was a key practice of the famous Tibetan yogin Milarepa.


How does this claim fit in the picture?

What little I've heard or read of tummo, they have to do with breathing, moving attention and visualising in the central channel in the spine. I don't mean to be a drag Malcolm but what you say is a major surprise for me. If spine practices nor kundalini energy are utilised what do they/you guys do then? :) No specific information needed, just general remarks with slight explanations, please. ;)
Simon E.
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by Simon E. »

zenman, Tummo can only be fully understood, and is only applicable, in the context of a relationship with a Vajrayana teacher.
That's just a fact.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
Malcolm
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by Malcolm »

zenman wrote:Copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Kurt Keutzer

Kundalini yoga in the Natha Sampradaya and Vajrayana in Tibetan Buddhism both take their origin from the Mahasiddhas who were active in India from the 8th century to the 12th century. Kundalini yoga practices formed the core of the teachings of a number of these Mahasiddhas and are strongly represented in both Tibetan Buddhist practices and contemporary kundalini yoga practices. Kundalini yoga was spoken of as "Candali yoga" by these Mahasiddhas and became known as gTummo rnal 'byor in Tibet. Candali yoga was a key practice of the famous Tibetan yogin Milarepa.


How does this claim fit in the picture?

What little I've heard or read of tummo, they have to do with breathing, moving attention and visualising in the central channel in the spine. I don't mean to be a drag Malcolm but what you say is a major surprise for me. If spine practices nor kundalini energy are utilised what do they/you guys do then? :) No specific information needed, just general remarks with slight explanations, please. ;)
There is no meditation related to the spine, for the third time.
Yes, caṇḍali yoga involves kumbhaka.
In general the spine is considered to be a major subsidiary channel.

M
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

edited*
Last edited by zenman on Fri May 23, 2014 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
zenman
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Re: Do Tummo-practitioners describe this?

Post by zenman »

Malcolm wrote:
zenman wrote:Copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Kurt Keutzer

Kundalini yoga in the Natha Sampradaya and Vajrayana in Tibetan Buddhism both take their origin from the Mahasiddhas who were active in India from the 8th century to the 12th century. Kundalini yoga practices formed the core of the teachings of a number of these Mahasiddhas and are strongly represented in both Tibetan Buddhist practices and contemporary kundalini yoga practices. Kundalini yoga was spoken of as "Candali yoga" by these Mahasiddhas and became known as gTummo rnal 'byor in Tibet. Candali yoga was a key practice of the famous Tibetan yogin Milarepa.


How does this claim fit in the picture?

What little I've heard or read of tummo, they have to do with breathing, moving attention and visualising in the central channel in the spine. I don't mean to be a drag Malcolm but what you say is a major surprise for me. If spine practices nor kundalini energy are utilised what do they/you guys do then? :) No specific information needed, just general remarks with slight explanations, please. ;)
There is no meditation related to the spine, for the third time.
Yes, caṇḍali yoga involves kumbhaka.
In general the spine is considered to be a major subsidiary channel.

M
I see. Thanks for this bit :)
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