Identifying a deity

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Konchog1
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Identifying a deity

Post by Konchog1 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:45 am

I think the name is something like "Heruka Namse"

He's practiced in the Nyingma and Gelug.

The yab is blue with four arms atop a snow lion, the yum is white.

He was in the upper right corner of a thangka of the 4th Dalai Lama.

Any info? Thank you.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:52 am

Maybe Vaishravana?
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Konchog1
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Konchog1 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:19 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:Maybe Vaishravana?
Oh is Namse the Tibetan word for Vaishravana? But no, he's a yidam.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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conebeckham
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by conebeckham » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:34 pm

Can you post an image?

There are many forms of Namteuse....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Konchog1
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Konchog1 » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:50 pm

conebeckham wrote:Can you post an image?

There are many forms of Namteuse....
Sorry, I'll try to remember to bring my camera next time I go to temple.

This is rare:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Namteuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:59 pm

Vaishravana = rnam thos sras = rnam sras = namse.
He's one of the main protectors of the Gelugpas, but I don't know if it's what you're referring to.
Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Grigoris
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Grigoris » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:19 pm

Konchog1 wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Maybe Vaishravana?
Oh is Namse the Tibetan word for Vaishravana? But no, he's a yidam.
Vaishravana (Tibetan: རྣམ་ཐོས་སྲས rnam.thos.sras Namthöse) is a form of Yellow Dzambala and is (can be practiced as) a yidam.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Konchog1
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Konchog1 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:13 am

It wasn't Vaishravana. I know what Vaishravana looks like.

The deity I saw was blue with four arms atop a snow lion, the consort was white.

While on the subject, I feel bad for Vaishravana. It seems Lhamo, Kalarupa, and Mahakala get all the attention. Unexpected as Vaishravana gives wealth.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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conebeckham
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by conebeckham » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:33 am

One of these?


http://www.geocities.ws/mahayanazengong/wealth.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Konchog1
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Konchog1 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:11 am

conebeckham wrote:One of these?


http://www.geocities.ws/mahayanazengong/wealth.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No, completely different.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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Grigoris
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:16 am

Without a photo I doubt we will get very far in this search.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

dzoki
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by dzoki » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:57 am

Konchog1 wrote:It wasn't Vaishravana. I know what Vaishravana looks like.

The deity I saw was blue with four arms atop a snow lion, the consort was white.

While on the subject, I feel bad for Vaishravana. It seems Lhamo, Kalarupa, and Mahakala get all the attention. Unexpected as Vaishravana gives wealth.
http://www.himalayanart.org/image.cfm/776.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your description reminds me of Chaturpitha (a.k.a Yogambhara|Naljor Namkha), but he has six arms, so i don' t know.

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Konchog1
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Konchog1 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:40 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:Without a photo I doubt we will get very far in this search.
I'll be visiting the temple at the end of the month.
dzoki wrote:http://www.himalayanart.org/image.cfm/776.html

Your description reminds me of Chaturpitha (a.k.a Yogambhara|Naljor Namkha), but he has six arms, so i don' t know.
Yes, that's him! I don't remember the two arms around the consort though... and I only remember one face... but everything else is the same

Also he seems to be most popular in the Kagyu, but I was told he is practiced in the Nyingma and Gelug and that he is a Heruka.

Hmm.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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conebeckham
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by conebeckham » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:16 am

Caturpitha (Chaturpita, Chatuhpitha, etc.) means "Four Seats," and it's one of the 13 Tantras of Marpa, included in the Kagyu NgakDzo. In Tibetan it's "Dorje DenShi" or rdo.rje.gdan.bzhi.

This is an Anuttarayogatantra of the Mother Class. See Kongtrul's Encylopedia, Book 8, part Three: Systems of Buddhist Tantra for more info. If you can read Tibetan, Taranatha wrote a manual related to the practice, as well.....there's other stuff on TBRC.

It's not very well known, in comparison to most of the other Tantras of Marpa's traditions. But 17th Karmapa instituted the practice of these in various Karma Kagyu monasteries; Den Zhi is practiced at Pullahari (Jamgon Kongtrul's place In Nepal). There's a Yabka practice including a 62 deity mandala, and the Yumka which is, I think, a 15 deity mandala. Also, in the past few months Gyaltsap Rinpoche hosted a huge Drupcho at his monastery, where each of these practices was done suimultaneously by the various monastic bodies, at one place.

Here's a picture of the Denzhi Tormas and shrine...
Image
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Konchog1
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Konchog1 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:46 pm

Here we are. The upper right of an image of the fourth Dalai Lama.

http://imgur.com/Kkyj3Nd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

kong zen
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by kong zen » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:37 am

are you all accepted the empowerments

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Karinos
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Karinos » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:00 pm

Yes this is Yogambara (Vajra Chaturpiṭha)
another nice thangka:
http://www.himalayanart.org/image.cfm/65002.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Konchog1
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Konchog1 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:46 pm

Thank you! So now I'm really confused. Why is he on an image of the Fourth? He doesn't seem to be a deity practiced by Tsongkhapa. Is that true?
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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conebeckham
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by conebeckham » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:09 pm

Den Zhi Tantra is a primary source for the completion stage practice of Phowa.
It's possible this may be important. It does seem Fourth Dalai Lama was known to be inclined toward tantric practice, and Treasury of Lives even comments on "shamanistic" practices related to his Mongolian heritage. I don't know if that means anything.....

I also note that the Den Zhi is, along with Sang Du, counted in the Karma Kagyu as one of the four special transmissions to Marpa, and these two are claimed to come from Nagarjuna.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Karinos
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Re: Identifying a deity

Post by Karinos » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:58 pm

http://himalayancollections.commons.yal ... dalai-lama" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here is image of 3rd Dalai Lama thangka where there is Yogambra image as well - there must be relation between Dalai Lama and this particular tantra. Also it says that there is connection to Chakrasavara tantra

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