Vajrasattva questions

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heart
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Re: Vajrasattva questions

Post by heart » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:10 pm

Vasana wrote:
heart wrote:
TaTa wrote:Funny that this thread has been revived since y opened eat a few years back and now i have a doubt that unfortunatly cant consult with my lama right now.

I have finished ngondro accumulation but i keep doing the daily 21 recitations. I was wondering, what do you usually visualize in this short period of time, whats the emphasis on?
You do the same thing as during accumulation, but fast.

/magnus

Well if you have a visualization for purifying all three gates at the same time, you can do that. Or 5 beads for each and an extra one. I think the whats and the hows vary by sadhana and the teacher's instruction. Unless you have explicit instructions to recite it fast, i think you can experiment with the tempo.

The best advice i got regarding any Yidam work is not to get too sidetracked with adding an additional layer of 'mental-gymnastics' trying to keep all of the elements in place. :juggling: Some recitations will naturally accompany a clearer visualization, non-distracted state of mind and some degree of clarity and some will be dull or distracted. As far as i was taught, the goal should never be to add another layer of conceptual fabrication on top of what's already being done with the visualization and mantra.
You do the visualisation fast because TaTa do only 21 recitations.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Malcolm
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Re: Vajrasattva questions

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:01 pm

Karma Jinpa wrote:Here's a question I've never seen answered. When we visualize Vajrasattva above our heads, is he facing us and a little out in front, or is he directly on top of our crown and facing the same direction as we are?
Above our heads, facing the same direction we are.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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pueraeternus
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Re: Vajrasattva questions

Post by pueraeternus » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:23 pm

Vasana wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Vasana wrote:Bumping this thread as i didn't want to start another topic.

I'm looking for information about the root Tantra of Vajrasattva and the origin of the 100 syllable mantra and i'm strugling to find any original texts or detailed accounts other than the root tantra's name, Dorje Gyan, or Vajra Ornament.

Anyone have any leads?

Vajrasattva comes from the Sarvatathāgatatattvasaṃgraha, the root tantra of Yoga tantra. It is also found in the Vajrapañjara Tantra and other HYT tantras.
Thanks, Malcolm. :reading:
In East Asia, this tantra is titled the Vajrasekhara Sutra. You can find it translated in BDK's Two Esoteric Sutras: http://www.bdkamerica.org/book/two-esoteric-sutras
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

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Malcolm
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Re: Vajrasattva questions

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:24 pm

pueraeternus wrote:
Vasana wrote:
Malcolm wrote:

Vajrasattva comes from the Sarvatathāgatatattvasaṃgraha, the root tantra of Yoga tantra. It is also found in the Vajrapañjara Tantra and other HYT tantras.
Thanks, Malcolm. :reading:
In East Asia, this tantra is titled the Vajrasekhara Sutra. You can find it translated in BDK's Two Esoteric Sutras: http://www.bdkamerica.org/book/two-esoteric-sutras

No. the Vajrasekhara Tantra (Sūtra) is a different text.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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pueraeternus
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:10 pm

Re: Vajrasattva questions

Post by pueraeternus » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:42 pm

Malcolm wrote:
pueraeternus wrote:
Vasana wrote:
Thanks, Malcolm. :reading:
In East Asia, this tantra is titled the Vajrasekhara Sutra. You can find it translated in BDK's Two Esoteric Sutras: http://www.bdkamerica.org/book/two-esoteric-sutras

No. the Vajrasekhara Tantra (Sūtra) is a different text.
From the BDK link, the Sanskrit name matches though:
Skt. Sarvatathāgata-tattvasaṃgraha-mahāyānābhisamaya-mahākalparāja. Translated into the Chinese by Amoghavajra as Jinggangding yiqie rulai zhenshi she dasheng xianzheng dajiao wang jing (金剛頂一切如來眞實攝大乘現證大教王經). 3 fascicles.
"Men must want to do things out of their own innermost drives. People, not commercial organizations or chains of command, are what make great civilizations work. Every civilization depends upon the quality of the individuals it produces. If you over-organize humans, over-legalize them, suppress their urge to greatness - they cannot work and their civilization collapses."
- A letter to CHOAM, attributed to the Preacher

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Malcolm
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Re: Vajrasattva questions

Post by Malcolm » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:47 pm

pueraeternus wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
pueraeternus wrote:
In East Asia, this tantra is titled the Vajrasekhara Sutra. You can find it translated in BDK's Two Esoteric Sutras: http://www.bdkamerica.org/book/two-esoteric-sutras

No. the Vajrasekhara Tantra (Sūtra) is a different text.
From the BDK link, the Sanskrit name matches though:
Skt. Sarvatathāgata-tattvasaṃgraha-mahāyānābhisamaya-mahākalparāja. Translated into the Chinese by Amoghavajra as Jinggangding yiqie rulai zhenshi she dasheng xianzheng dajiao wang jing (金剛頂一切如來眞實攝大乘現證大教王經). 3 fascicles.

Sarvatathāgatatattvasaṃgraha-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra (D 479). Translator(s):Śraddhākaravarman, Rin-chen-bzang-po

Vajra-śikhara-mahā-guhya-yoga-tantra (D 480). Translator(s):Karmavajra, Gzhon-nu Tshul-khrims

It appears that in Shingon, the former is known by the name of the latter. According to Weinberger:
During the first quarter of the eighth century the Compendium of Principles and texts associated with it were transmitted to China. These south Indian traditions organized the texs into an eighteen-part tantric corpus called the Vajraśekhara Yoga system.
and:
In 723 CE the Indian master Vajrabodhi (641-741) produced the Recitation Sūtra Extracted from the Vajraśekhara Yoga.10 This text, in four fascicles, is not a translation proper; rather, it is Vajrabodhi’s introduction to the Compendium of Principles and a larger system of eighteen tantras, of which the Compendium of Principles was the most prominent member.
Vajraśekhara then refers to a system which includes both the Vajra-śikhara and the Sarvatathāgatatattvasaṃgra.

M
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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