I would like to re-iterate: Mahayana is very important. When I go to places like Taiwan, I meet two kinds of people. I meet people who have followed the Mahayana path and training, and were later drawn to practise Vajrayana. And I meet people who have entered straight into Vajrayana with no foundation in Mahayana. The difference between these two kinds of people is as plain as the difference between a firefly and the sun, I must say.
Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind. Whereas those who have first practised Mahayana seriously have a very mature and refined approach to practising the Vajrayana.
Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
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Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
From DJKR's commentary on "Parting from the Four Attachments":
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Nice.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
What's nice about it?smcj wrote:Nice.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.What's nice about it?Nice.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:smcj wrote:His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.What's nice about it?Nice.
These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
I find this statement very misleading. Since Vajrayana is based on Mahayana and therefore includes it, there is no such thing as Vajrayana without Mahayana, just as there can be no such thing as water without hydrogen. Likewise there is no such thing as skipping the Mahayana path when going to Vajrayana. If people believe they can practice Vajrayana without Mahayana what they're doing is nothing but mimicry. And that is, of course, what DJKR is alluding to here. However the way he expresses his thesis is strictly speaking wrong. There's nothing wrong with going straight to Vajrayana without practicing vajrayanafree-Mahayana first, because correctly understood Vajrayana practice includes Mahayana practice.Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
I think DKR knows all that.ReasonAndRhyme wrote: I find this statement very misleading. Since Vajrayana is based on Mahayana and therefore includes it, there is no such thing as Vajrayana without Mahayana, just as there can be no such thing as water without hydrogen. Likewise there is no such thing as skipping the Mahayana path when going to Vajrayana. If people believe they can practice Vajrayana without Mahayana what they're doing is nothing but mimicry. And that is, of course, what DJKR is alluding to here. However the way he expresses his thesis is strictly speaking wrong. There's nothing wrong with going straight to Vajrayana without practicing vajrayanafree-Mahayana first, because correctly understood Vajrayana practice includes Mahayana practice.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Right. But what about incorrectly-understood Vajrayana?ReasonAndRhyme wrote: correctly understood Vajrayana practice includes Mahayana practice.
is it possible that DKR is attempting to criticize those who use Vajrayana methods but who lack Mayahana motivation? (see also: spiritual materialism)
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
What I'm saying is that the way he expresses his thesis is wrong.
Instead of
Instead of
it should be something like thisThose who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path
Those who wrongly believe they can skip the Mahayana path and who wrongly believe they can go straight to a non-Mahayanistic Vajrayana path
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
Then why does he say otherwise?smcj wrote:I think DKR knows all that.ReasonAndRhyme wrote: I find this statement very misleading. Since Vajrayana is based on Mahayana and therefore includes it, there is no such thing as Vajrayana without Mahayana, just as there can be no such thing as water without hydrogen. Likewise there is no such thing as skipping the Mahayana path when going to Vajrayana. If people believe they can practice Vajrayana without Mahayana what they're doing is nothing but mimicry. And that is, of course, what DJKR is alluding to here. However the way he expresses his thesis is strictly speaking wrong. There's nothing wrong with going straight to Vajrayana without practicing vajrayanafree-Mahayana first, because correctly understood Vajrayana practice includes Mahayana practice.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
He was just making a point without being rigorous for brevity's sake.Then why does he say otherwise?
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
That's one of the pitfalls of working with transscriptions from oral teachings that many of the phrasings are not as exact as they should be in a written publication.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
What the above seems to say is that when Vajrayana is used for worldly purposes, it is nothing but a system of magic techniques, whereas with the motivation of enlightenment it is a means of the bodhisattva path. However, I think most Westerners don't believe in magic anyway, so the mistakes about Vajrayana are different.hey have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind. Whereas those who have first practised Mahayana seriously have a very mature and refined approach to practising the Vajrayana.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
DkR makes a point but he skips Sutrayana.When you skip one you miss them all?Or the Higher yanas include the lower.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
I think this was taken out of context.
the base for Vajrayana is Mahayana and without Mahayana Vajrayana becomes nothing nore than a set of rituals. I feel he is referring tothose who go straight for the surface of Vajrayana like intiations that bestow power and money instead of the actual core teachings of Vajrayana which is actually Mahayana.
the base for Vajrayana is Mahayana and without Mahayana Vajrayana becomes nothing nore than a set of rituals. I feel he is referring tothose who go straight for the surface of Vajrayana like intiations that bestow power and money instead of the actual core teachings of Vajrayana which is actually Mahayana.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
I think most Westerners who are interested in Vajrayana do believe in magic. I certainly do.Astus wrote:However, I think most Westerners don't believe in magic anyway, so the mistakes about Vajrayana are different.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
DJKR makes a point here, I mostly agree.
But just to gum up the works, you can also Mahayana only practitioners who talk love and compassion, but who display a rigid, neurotic, puritanical approach to Dharma. The Vajrayana style of neurosis may be more ostentatious...but I'm not sure I'm convinced it's any more common. The same two trends can be simultaneous too.
But just to gum up the works, you can also Mahayana only practitioners who talk love and compassion, but who display a rigid, neurotic, puritanical approach to Dharma. The Vajrayana style of neurosis may be more ostentatious...but I'm not sure I'm convinced it's any more common. The same two trends can be simultaneous too.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
This topic has been moved to the Tibetan Buddhism Forum from the Mahayana Forum.
Thank you.
Virgo
Thank you.
Virgo
Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana
How about those who skip the Theravada path and go straight to the Mahayana?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering