Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

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Norwegian
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Norwegian » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:03 pm

pael wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:20 pm
How about those who skip the Theravada path and go straight to the Mahayana?
You do not have to start with Theravada first, then move on to Mahayana. That's a misconception.

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practitioner
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by practitioner » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:41 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:23 pm
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.

Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.

He says he sees these people in Taiwan, why do you think he is talking about Westerners?
One should do nothing other than benefit sentient beings either directly or indirectly - Shantideva

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by PuerAzaelis » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:34 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:03 pm
pael wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:20 pm
How about those who skip the Theravada path and go straight to the Mahayana?
You do not have to start with Theravada first, then move on to Mahayana. That's a misconception.
Unless you're a practitioner of initial scope. Like me.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Josef
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Josef » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:29 pm

He cant seem to resist an opportunity to belittle the people who pay for his privileged lifestyle.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

PeterC
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by PeterC » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:25 am

It takes great skill to benefit others by being provocative without also being a jerk. If he continues on this path, I’m confident that DJKr will master it in about thirty years or so

Varis
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Varis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:25 am

Astus wrote:
Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:35 am
What the above seems to say is that when Vajrayana is used for worldly purposes, it is nothing but a system of magic techniques, whereas with the motivation of enlightenment it is a means of the bodhisattva path. However, I think most Westerners don't believe in magic anyway, so the mistakes about Vajrayana are different.
Well I think DKR should take this up with the past masters of Vajrayana, not modern students.

A lot of past masters of Vajrayana, both Indian and Tibetan, have written a ton of manuals and instructions on how to attain personal gain with tantric practices.
The quest for siddhis is what largely differentiates non-tantric yogic practices from tantric ones.

I should throw in the caveat that I am not even a beginner on this path, I'm just looking at this from an academic perspective, so don't take me seriously.

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Harimoo
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Harimoo » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:26 am

Is DKR a troll ?

TsultimNamdak
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by TsultimNamdak » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:11 pm

At least DKR doesn't in this instance complain about them being New York Times-reading liberals.

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by MiphamFan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:22 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:23 pm
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.

Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.
Well, not that I disagree, but he was talking about going to Taiwan and seeing such things.

diamind
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by diamind » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm
smcj wrote:
What's nice about it?
His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.
I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:
Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:40 pm

MiphamFan wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:22 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:23 pm
They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.

Yup, I know many, many, many Tibetans and Chinese people to whom this applies; not so many westerners though.
Well, not that I disagree, but he was talking about going to Taiwan and seeing such things.
Just making a point.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Josef
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Josef » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:26 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm
smcj wrote: His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.
I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:
Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
You’re kidding I hope.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm
smcj wrote: His affirmation of the benefits of practicing the Mahayana as a basis for the Vajrayana.
I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:
Those who skip the Mahayana path and go straight to the Vajrayana path are obvious from a distance by the gleam of their oily hair. They have at least four malas around their neck, and they love to talk about power and magnetizing wealth. Their view often seems to be founded on a rather superstitious cast of mind.
These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

diamind
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by diamind » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm


I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:



These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.
That's the view. Maybe it's better you stick with the sutras.

diamind
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by diamind » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 pm

Josef wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:26 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:56 pm


I am sorry, but this following statement is very silly:



These kinds of put-downs are simply not necessary.
He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
You’re kidding I hope.
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing? The one that critics the guru? Sorry haven't heard of that one yet. Must be new. Good luck with that.

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:04 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm


He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.
That's the view. Maybe it's better you stick with the sutras.

No, that is not the view. That just some cultist bullshit. Instead, authentic sources like the Padmini commentary on the Hevajra Tantra composed in the mid-10th century state:

"Because of the power of the Kaliyuga, gurus have mixed qualities and faults,
there are none at all without misdeeds;
disciples should rely on those
whose qualities predominate, and who have been thoroughly investigated."
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Ricky
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Ricky » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:09 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:04 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm


Right, because rinpoches are infallible by definition and they don't shit anything but sunshine and unicorns.
That's the view. Maybe it's better you stick with the sutras.

No, that is not the view. That just some cultist bullshit. Instead, authentic sources like the Padmini commentary on the Hevajra Tantra composed in the mid-10th century state:

"Because of the power of the Kaliyuga, gurus have mixed qualities and faults,
there are none at all without misdeeds;
disciples should rely on those
whose qualities predominate, and who have been thoroughly investigated."
Nice quote. I always had the idea that gurus in Vajrayana have to be seen as infallible Buddhas in order for the practices to work.

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 pm
Josef wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:26 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:25 pm


He is a Rinpoche so they must necessary.
You’re kidding I hope.
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing? The one that critics the guru? Sorry haven't heard of that one yet. Must be new. Good luck with that.
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Seeker12
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Seeker12 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:17 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 pm
Josef wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:26 pm

You’re kidding I hope.
No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing? The one that critics the guru? Sorry haven't heard of that one yet. Must be new. Good luck with that.
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.
Man, it seems to me that this type of thing should be more widely known.
Better than if there were thousands of meaningless words is
one meaningful word that on hearing brings peace. Dhp

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Malcolm
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on the importance of Mahayana

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:27 pm

Seeker12 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:17 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:11 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:45 pm


No, which kind of vajrayana are you practicing? The one that critics the guru? Sorry haven't heard of that one yet. Must be new. Good luck with that.
Sakya Pandita states:

"Criticism" does not refer to criticizing the master out of some slight anger. "Criticism" refers to statements such as "This master is evil, with corrupted discipline, who does not act according to the Dharma, and so on. Such criticisms result in a downfall.

In other words, in order to commit this downfall, one has to make extremely negative statements about a qualified master from whom one has received teachings. Minor criticisms do not constitute a downfall.
Man, it seems to me that this type of thing should be more widely known.
There is a huge tendency in Vajrayāna to encourage sycophancy and dependence amongst disciples. Many people do not understand that there are limits to the guru's authority. For example, Sapan also states with great clarity:

If he does not teach according to the words of the Buddha,
even if he is one’s guru, one should remain indifferent.


This is not to say that we can get anywhere on our own in the Buddhist path, The Tattvāvatāra states:

The all-knowing one praises reliance on a guru,
not the independence of a disciple.
A blind person is not independent,
unable to climb a mountain.


Nevertheless, we must temper our understaing of the need to rely on a qualified master with common sense, so we do not wind up creating Buddhist cults which merely keep people imprisoned cages that seem like Dharma but are actually just clever prisons.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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