claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:54 pm

Still no word back yet but have faith. Sent it to friend at Liberation Prison Project which is affiliated with the FPMT as is Maitripa so-- Last night also emailed His Eminence Tsem Tulku through his page (hopefully whoever takes care of that will get it to Rinpoche) including the fact that I am also trying to get Maitripa involved. So hopefully we can get a 2 pronged campaign going to get a correction or another op-ed letter.

Will post an update when I hear back from somebody.
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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:10 pm

Friend is busy so emailed Yangsi Rinpoche @ Maitripa.
Dear Rinpoche,

On Oct. 8 an op-ed ran in the New York Times quoting an erroneous source. Nicholas Kristof wrote that,

" The Dalai Lama today is an extraordinary humanitarian, but the fifth Dalai Lama in 1660 ordered children massacred 'like eggs smashed against rocks.' "

I am unable to translate Tibetan but the source he used is Buddha's Not Smiling by Erik D. Curren and it is not a letter to the Khan from the Great Fifth but rather a petition to Tsui Marpo.

Please, if possible could you take a look at this and maybe we can have a correction run in the NY Times.

I am also trying to get in touch with His Eminence Tsem Tulku about this matter but I don't have a direct email address so I sent it through his webpage.

Thank you kindly,

Loren Enders
I should be meditating.

Greg
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by Greg » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:02 am

lorem wrote:Friend is busy so emailed Yangsi Rinpoche @ Maitripa.
Dear Rinpoche,

On Oct. 8 an op-ed ran in the New York Times quoting an erroneous source. Nicholas Kristof wrote that,

" The Dalai Lama today is an extraordinary humanitarian, but the fifth Dalai Lama in 1660 ordered children massacred 'like eggs smashed against rocks.' "

I am unable to translate Tibetan but the source he used is Buddha's Not Smiling by Erik D. Curren and it is not a letter to the Khan from the Great Fifth but rather a petition to Tsui Marpo.

Please, if possible could you take a look at this and maybe we can have a correction run in the NY Times.

I am also trying to get in touch with His Eminence Tsem Tulku about this matter but I don't have a direct email address so I sent it through his webpage.

Thank you kindly,

Loren Enders
I doubt he is using Buddha is Not Smiling. Sperling is clearly the source for both.

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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:53 am

Okay. Thanks Greg. We'll see what happens.
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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:04 pm

Experience arises like magic.
If you practice like magic
You will awaken like magic
Through the power of faith.
Homage to Niguma,
Homage to the Lady of Illusion,
Homage to She of Fearless Compassion.
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conebeckham
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by conebeckham » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:38 pm

Interesting that you use "magic" in the translation....most people translate it as "illusion" or "illusory." But yes, Homage to the Peerless Niguma! :smile:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:36 pm

We'll have not heard anything back from anybody so going to let it go now.

His Holiness will be giving a Lokeshvara empowerment in Vancouver tomorrow 10.23, 0930. Also will be in Alabama so not really worried about it.
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by Vajrasvapna » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:22 pm

Malcolm wrote:No he is not calling for the slaughter of actual children, this is not his intention. All protector cycles have prayers with imagery just as violent. It is part and parcel of the rhetoric of violence that permeates the religious imagery of protector practices and smad las rites in general. I could cite (and won't) innumerable gore-filled examples where samaya breakers and their off-spring are subject to just as fierce imprecations.
A prayer to harm the persons who break theirs vows is something other than a prayer to cause harm to innocent children and servants. The children were a threat to Buddhism or just to the power of the Dalai Lama and his order?
Son of Buddha wrote:The past is the past, I only care about the present, that includes the Dali Lama, I only care about how the DL acts in the present. :group:
I remember that the pope john paul II apologized for the actions of the church, should not the Dalai Lama do the same? What is the meaning of him teach peace and nonviolence, if he did not practice it in Tibet? What's the point of him preaching peace if he use a title given to him by a warlord?
The reason for his success in the West is the fact that he adopted the culture of the Western left. even though materialism is not really in harmony with Buddhism. I notice a big irrationalism in relation to the fact that not even question him and his actions is allowed, a Buddhist leader should not offer explanations for his actions?
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.

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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:33 pm

Yeah I really don't like reading the history of Tibet myself.

The thing is who should apologize?

King Trisong Detsen, Padmasambhawa, King Langdarma, the Queen, the Khan, Lama Zhang, the Protectors, the Geluk, Sakya, Kagyu, Nyingma, Bon, the Dalai Lama (and remember could be diff mindstream than the Great Fifth).

Difficult questions.
I should be meditating.

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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:50 pm

Maybe the past is the past.

Image
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Vajrasvapna
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by Vajrasvapna » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:13 pm

lorem wrote:Yeah I really don't like reading the history of Tibet myself.

The thing is who should apologize?

King Trisong Detsen, Padmasambhawa, King Langdarma, the Queen, the Khan, Lama Zhang, the Protectors, the Geluk, Sakya, Kagyu, Nyingma, Bon, the Dalai Lama (and remember could be diff mindstream than the Great Fifth).

Difficult questions.
The Mahayana scriptures approve the use of violence in case they bring benefit to beings. Benefits means to protect Buddhist teachers and the dissemination of the teachings. But some Buddhists today claim to be totally against violence and that this is the view of Buddhism. I like consistency and just forget the past is not something positive, that's the way sociopaths act. Buddhist teachers should offer explanations about this, if people are not able to understand that they should look for another path for himself.
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.

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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:23 pm

Vajrasvapna wrote:The Mahayana scriptures approve the use of violence in case they bring benefit to beings.
Yes the scriptures do but also I think those actions have been taken by higher level bodhisattvas. We'd have to go through each sutra and look at each example. Captain Great Compassionate for example is the one that always comes to mind. I don't have that type of wisdom that's why the prayers to the wisdom protectors are prayers.

When I went to Bon center they were quite up front and said in the past the Bon had practiced animal sacrifice but Not today.

The only thing consistent about samsara is
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by Vajrasvapna » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:33 pm

lorem wrote:
Vajrasvapna wrote:The Mahayana scriptures approve the use of violence in case they bring benefit to beings.
Yes the scriptures do but also I think those actions have been taken by higher level bodhisattvas. We'd have to go through each sutra and look at each example. Captain Great Compassionate for example is the one that always comes to mind. I don't have that type of wisdom that's why the prayers to the wisdom protectors are prayers.

When I went to Bon center they were quite up front and said in the past the Bon had practiced animal sacrifice but Not today.

The only thing consistent about samsara is
So were the Dalai Lama and the Mongolian warlords high level bodhisattvas and the destruction of children and servants enlightened activities? Curious that Genghis Khan had the help of a Buddhist monk to escape from slavery and he did not destroy the monastery when he invaded the kingdom of Tangut.
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.

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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by Grigoris » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:14 pm

What exactly is curious about human beings acting like human beings?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by Vajrasvapna » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:36 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:What exactly is curious about human beings acting like human beings?
What is your definition of what it means to be a human being?
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.

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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by Malcolm » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:15 pm

Vajrasvapna wrote:
Malcolm wrote:No he is not calling for the slaughter of actual children, this is not his intention. All protector cycles have prayers with imagery just as violent. It is part and parcel of the rhetoric of violence that permeates the religious imagery of protector practices and smad las rites in general. I could cite (and won't) innumerable gore-filled examples where samaya breakers and their off-spring are subject to just as fierce imprecations.
A prayer to harm the persons who break theirs vows is something other than a prayer to cause harm to innocent children and servants. The children were a threat to Buddhism or just to the power of the Dalai Lama and his order?

The prayer was directed not at people, but spirits causing people to act against there samaya, hence the reason it was addressed to Tsi'u mar.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by drodul » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:17 pm

Someone asked Kristof for his source via Twitter and posted his reply on jamyangnorbu.com : https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/ ... 8696143872" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . Kristof cited "Ben Kiernan's magisterial history of genocide." I'm not familiar with it.

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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by Vajrasvapna » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:42 pm

Malcolm wrote:The prayer was directed not at people, but spirits causing people to act against there samaya, hence the reason it was addressed to Tsi'u mar.
The problem is that, in this context, apparently anyone who criticize the Dalai Lama and his political power would be breaking his samaya. You can read the book Buddhist Warfare by Mark Juergensmeyer provides a good description of the relationship between Buddhism and warfare, in addition to how Buddhist masters justified wars and sanctified their supporters.
"People these days use whatever little dharma they know to augment afflictive emotion, and then engender tremendous pride and conceit over it. They teach the Dharma without taming their own minds. But as with a river rock , not even a hair’s tip of benefit penetrates the other people. Even worse, incorrigible people [are attracted] to this dharma that increases conflict. When individuals who could be tamed by the Dharma encounter such incorrigible, their desire for the sacred Dharma is lost. It is not the fault of the Dharma; it is the fault of individuals." Machik Labdron prophecy.

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lorem
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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:50 pm

Vajrasvapna wrote: criticize the Dalai Lama and his political power would be breaking his samaya
This one is too good. Wanted to play off of this one.
I should be meditating.

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Re: claim about Fifth Dalai Lama

Post by lorem » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:37 pm

Dalai Lama on Questioning the Advice Of Guru.
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