Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

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emptydreams
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Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by emptydreams » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:15 am

im not sure if i should post it here, but if this is the incorrect section, please do move it somewhere else..

Hi guys,

I would like to ask for your help on this as I really want to take Chakrasamvara's initiation but i do lack the funds to go...so was hoping if you guys can help me out here:

http://igg.me/p/chakrasamvara-initiatio ... /x/9099155" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks

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lorem
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by lorem » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:41 am

the moderators might move this or whatever. i know how you feel...always thought H E Choden Rinpoche gave the interesting empowerments in other countries. im pretty open person i can help you a little $250 USD.

EDIT i take risks so no prob for me but can i can't ask other people to do the same. we can im later cause we need to talk about that thing we can't talk about. try im tomorrow. any merit we can dedicate to the long life of all our teachers.
I should be meditating.

narraboth
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by narraboth » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:30 pm

There are many lama visiting Malaysia every year. There are also many lama visiting for example Taiwan every year. If you couldn't get the fund to visit the Netherlands in the end (it appears that you are still far from your goal. And 3000 euros is not a small amount to most of people), try to wait for another chance that costs you less.

good luck!

emptydreams
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by emptydreams » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:35 pm

narraboth wrote:There are many lama visiting Malaysia every year. There are also many lama visiting for example Taiwan every year. If you couldn't get the fund to visit the Netherlands in the end (it appears that you are still far from your goal. And 3000 euros is not a small amount to most of people), try to wait for another chance that costs you less.

good luck!
nobody gives HYTs here in Malaysia. the closest that we get is Guru Rinpoche. Yamantaka, Hevajra, Guhyasamaja etc are out of reach. The Lamas usually prefer to give Dzambala or Kurukulle for the Kagyus/Gelugs/Sakyas and certain Nyima Lamas may give more obscure yidams, but nothing serious.

Also, like I have said in the fundraiser, Chakrasamvara initiations are rare and hard to find.

Thus I am doing a fundraiser. As much as I dont feel comfortable with this but I do hope to get the practice ASAP.

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heart
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by heart » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:58 pm

emptydreams wrote:
narraboth wrote:There are many lama visiting Malaysia every year. There are also many lama visiting for example Taiwan every year. If you couldn't get the fund to visit the Netherlands in the end (it appears that you are still far from your goal. And 3000 euros is not a small amount to most of people), try to wait for another chance that costs you less.

good luck!
nobody gives HYTs here in Malaysia. the closest that we get is Guru Rinpoche. Yamantaka, Hevajra, Guhyasamaja etc are out of reach. The Lamas usually prefer to give Dzambala or Kurukulle for the Kagyus/Gelugs/Sakyas and certain Nyima Lamas may give more obscure yidams, but nothing serious.

Also, like I have said in the fundraiser, Chakrasamvara initiations are rare and hard to find.

Thus I am doing a fundraiser. As much as I dont feel comfortable with this but I do hope to get the practice ASAP.
All Guru Rinpoche empowerment's (that I know of) belong to the category of the inner tantras (maha, anu and ati) and so most certainly are on the level of HYT.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

supermaxv
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by supermaxv » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:34 pm

emptydreams wrote:nobody gives HYTs here in Malaysia. the closest that we get is Guru Rinpoche. Yamantaka, Hevajra, Guhyasamaja etc are out of reach. The Lamas usually prefer to give Dzambala or Kurukulle for the Kagyus/Gelugs/Sakyas and certain Nyima Lamas may give more obscure yidams, but nothing serious.
Erm, His Holiness Sakya Trizin is conferring the complete Lamdre teachings in Malaysia next year. Serious enough for you?

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lorem
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by lorem » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:41 pm

emptydreams wrote:As much as I dont feel comfortable with this but I do hope to get the practice ASAP.
Don't feel uncomfortable. Almsgiving is a part of Buddhism so not a big deal. What makes it weird is the impersonal aspect of the internet. Trust and other issues come into play and then it just complicates things. That is all.
I should be meditating.

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lorem
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by lorem » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:02 pm

supermaxv wrote:
emptydreams wrote:nobody gives HYTs here in Malaysia. the closest that we get is Guru Rinpoche. Yamantaka, Hevajra, Guhyasamaja etc are out of reach. The Lamas usually prefer to give Dzambala or Kurukulle for the Kagyus/Gelugs/Sakyas and certain Nyima Lamas may give more obscure yidams, but nothing serious.
I usually put my foot in my mouth but--
supermaxv wrote:Erm, His Holiness Sakya Trizin is conferring the complete Lamdre teachings in Malaysia next year. Serious enough for you?
Take your time. Meditate on it for a while and see what happens.
I should be meditating.

Punya
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by Punya » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:21 pm

supermaxv wrote:
emptydreams wrote:nobody gives HYTs here in Malaysia. the closest that we get is Guru Rinpoche. Yamantaka, Hevajra, Guhyasamaja etc are out of reach. The Lamas usually prefer to give Dzambala or Kurukulle for the Kagyus/Gelugs/Sakyas and certain Nyima Lamas may give more obscure yidams, but nothing serious.
Erm, His Holiness Sakya Trizin is conferring the complete Lamdre teachings in Malaysia next year. Serious enough for you?
True. It depends on your inclinations I guess.

You could set up at http://theofferingbowl.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; emptydreams and then post a link here. (If this is permitted by the TOS.)
Just as the trunk of an ordinary tree
Lying in the forests of the Malaya mountains
Absorbs the perfume of sandal from the moist leaves and branches
So you come to resemble who whomever you follow.

~Words of My Perfect Teacher

supermaxv
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by supermaxv » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:49 pm

Punya wrote:
supermaxv wrote:
emptydreams wrote:nobody gives HYTs here in Malaysia. the closest that we get is Guru Rinpoche. Yamantaka, Hevajra, Guhyasamaja etc are out of reach. The Lamas usually prefer to give Dzambala or Kurukulle for the Kagyus/Gelugs/Sakyas and certain Nyima Lamas may give more obscure yidams, but nothing serious.
Erm, His Holiness Sakya Trizin is conferring the complete Lamdre teachings in Malaysia next year. Serious enough for you?
True. It depends on your inclinations I guess.
It looks like back in August of this year there was a two day Hevajra empowerment as well in Penang. I'm not recommending anything at all. All I'm pointing out is that Malaysia isn't a place where HYT empowerments aren't bestowed, that's all.

jmlee369
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by jmlee369 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:47 am

First, I would like to clarify some things. On the fundraiser page, it mentioned that only seven lamas have the authority to give this initiation. This is certainly not the case, since Heruka Five deity (I assume Ghantapa tradition) is one of the most popular forms of Heruka practice in the Gelug lineage. Most any Gelug lama who can give HYT initiation will be likely to also give this initiation. Although I am not sure which of the three lineages are common in the Kagyu, Heruka Chakrasamvara is also one of their main deities.

More importantly, I would say that it is important to consider who the guru is more than the deity. Although you may have a strong connection to Heruka, taking a HYT initiation is a very heavy commitment, one that binds you to a teacher until enlightenment. Although Lama Zopa Rinpoche is a highly qualified teacher, does not mean he is necessarily the right teacher for you. First check whether he is truly the teacher you want to take as a root guru, and whether you feel a personal connection with him or not. Without the guru, there is no deity.

As for lack of opportunities in Malaysia, I'm wondering if you have much contact with the Gelug centers in Malaysia, such as the three FPMT ones, Land of Compassion Buddha, and so forth?

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conebeckham
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by conebeckham » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:22 am

Kagyupas have many Samvara empowerments, but the main Karma Kagyu one is a special transmission with roots in Luipa's tradition. It's a five deity mandala, and comes down to us via Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa, Mila, Gampopa, DuSum Khyenpa.

There's also the Rechung Nyengyu, and Ngok's transmission, and Niguma's 5 deity Transmission, and others.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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lorem
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by lorem » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:41 am

Thank you everybody. emptydreams good luck. think everything is okay.
I should be meditating.

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lorem
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by lorem » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:28 am

conebeckham wrote:Kagyupas have many Samvara empowerments, but the main Karma Kagyu one is a special transmission with roots in Luipa's tradition. It's a five deity mandala, and comes down to us via Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa, Mila, Gampopa, DuSum Khyenpa.

There's also the Rechung Nyengyu, and Ngok's transmission, and Niguma's 5 deity Transmission, and others.
Drikung is Ghantapa. Didn't really feel a need to go into details about the make of the arrow, etc. Think it's more important just to pull the arrow out.

But also got caught up in my own reactions and trust issues. Glad everyone is here together.
I should be meditating.

Silent Bob
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by Silent Bob » Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:52 am

jmlee369 wrote:More importantly, I would say that it is important to consider who the guru is more than the deity. Although you may have a strong connection to Heruka, taking a HYT initiation is a very heavy commitment, one that binds you to a teacher until enlightenment. Although Lama Zopa Rinpoche is a highly qualified teacher, does not mean he is necessarily the right teacher for you. First check whether he is truly the teacher you want to take as a root guru, and whether you feel a personal connection with him or not. Without the guru, there is no deity.
This is some of the best advice you'll ever get and it may just save you years of struggle and frustration.
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"

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lorem
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by lorem » Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:19 am

EDIT

Yes good advice. Another thing is I practice a lot of different schools but a teacher once told me that even Jamgon Kongtrul said that he wished he had focused less on the different empowerments and commitments and more on solitary practice.
I should be meditating.

emptydreams
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by emptydreams » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:43 pm

jmlee369 wrote:First, I would like to clarify some things. On the fundraiser page, it mentioned that only seven lamas have the authority to give this initiation. This is certainly not the case, since Heruka Five deity (I assume Ghantapa tradition) is one of the most popular forms of Heruka practice in the Gelug lineage. Most any Gelug lama who can give HYT initiation will be likely to also give this initiation. Although I am not sure which of the three lineages are common in the Kagyu, Heruka Chakrasamvara is also one of their main deities.

More importantly, I would say that it is important to consider who the guru is more than the deity. Although you may have a strong connection to Heruka, taking a HYT initiation is a very heavy commitment, one that binds you to a teacher until enlightenment. Although Lama Zopa Rinpoche is a highly qualified teacher, does not mean he is necessarily the right teacher for you. First check whether he is truly the teacher you want to take as a root guru, and whether you feel a personal connection with him or not. Without the guru, there is no deity.

As for lack of opportunities in Malaysia, I'm wondering if you have much contact with the Gelug centers in Malaysia, such as the three FPMT ones, Land of Compassion Buddha, and so forth?
Hi jmlee,

I have just reconfirmed that not anyone can give HYT. The particular lama needs to have an approximation retreat on that particular deity AND the permission from their Guru before they can give that initiation. I cannot exactly confirm the 7 lama thing, as I have only heard this from 2 sources so far, but given the rarity of Chakrasamvara initiations, there could be some truth to it.

I do feel a connection with Lama Zopa. But I lacked the opportunity to make that connection grow for a very long time...and here's a chance..

but at this point, this is an initiation that I felt that I have waited my whole life for, and I am not sure if I want to wait for another 20 years for it.

I am talking about opportunities to practice HYT seriously. Most of these centers only provide basic/preliminary education on Buddhism and very rarely something as specific as HYT. I know because I was born and bred here, and I am familiar with the Buddhist circle here and i do subscribe to the newsletter of many local centers so that I know their activities, if they offer any initiations etc.

The other thing is, I have asked these resident Lamas for initiations, and all of them said they are not qualified to give any. So there you go. One has told me that it would be best for me to drop everything in my life, relocate to Nepal and look for a Lama there if I am very serious in pursuing Chakrasamvara, and aquire the outer, inner and secret initiations.

only Guru Rinpoche as HYT so far. I havent heard of anything else yet but I am hoping for some to come. But I doubt it as the mentality of the locals here are not keen for HYT. They're more keen on wealth or other forms of worldly benefits.

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:34 am

I suggest you visit this website
http://vbcm.org/main/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good luck !

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lorem
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by lorem » Sun Nov 16, 2014 4:57 pm

emptydreams wrote:One has told me that it would be best for me to drop everything in my life, relocate to Nepal and look for a Lama there [...]
I saw you never got a response to this so I wanted just to jump in again. Don't do that. There are a lot of Vajrayana centers in Malaysia. I know some people did that in the 60s-70s but no need to unless you want to study under particular Lama or go to Kopan, etc. (I would visit first)

But just my feelings.
I should be meditating.

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Shemmy
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Re: Chakrasamvara initiation fundraiser...

Post by Shemmy » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:38 pm

No money for you, but I will try to inspire you! I too get kind of a thrill whenever I catch a glance of a Chakrasamvara thanka, whatever that could mean.

I live in Thailand and try to practice Vajrayana and its even worse than Malaysia, as far nobody having even the slightest interest in Vajrayana.

However, you know, it wasn't always that way and they have found many ancient Chakrasamvara statues and images under the ground at Pathum Thani near Bangkok. If I recall, they were Sri Vijaya empire images. Sri Vijaya extended over parts of Malaysia as well, so we live in Chakrasmvaraland over here! Chakrasamvara is here! Isn't that just amazing!? I love thinking about that, that there was a civilization here for a time that felt Chakrasamvara was important.

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