Lama and trust

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Saoshun
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Saoshun » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:43 pm

Your view is obscured. You do not look at lamas with trust or faith because it will create delusion. If lama can help you realize some thing about you and help you recognize it and point out everything you need to do to have effects - you do it and if works you can follow this lama, if not either you did something wrong or not put effort or lama is missing prajna.

I suggest you to focus on yourself because the "I" is a problem. Lama only stirring your "bullcrap" you accumulated thru various life-times, it's something you need investigate from where it coming, where it staying and where is going, these emotions and thoughts so maybe stop being defensive to this lama and start with building virtues otherwise you will be impatient. So I will suggest you firstly to investigate the problem which obviously arise withing yourself next build good foundation to practice buddhism and spiritual cultivation and it takes years to gather merits and virtues for this way of life also discipline.

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Soap-Bubble
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Soap-Bubble » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:03 am

Often teachers have no big influence on what's going on and people around them make decisions. Closing your center might have never been his intent, his might have even been against it, but... Samsara!

In your shoes I would grab the last straw and email him or maybe reach him through other people and tell him about the problem and how it affects practicing. Even if it's embarrassing to say that you feel abandoned and even lost faith in him. After all, he's your teacher and will give you the best advice he can about the situation.
a soap-bubble represents radiant emptiness

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:21 am

Malcolm wrote:
quince wrote:Yes, why?

Today I just finished the rough draft of the very long commentary on the Ngondro according to the Sakya school.

I also did a Sakya ngondro. You should finish your ngondro. However, perhaps you have no tdone enough Vajrasattva. This commentary states that if you recite 400,000 then you really purify everything. Why? Because in the Kali Yuga, you have to do four times as many mantras.
I just feel like I wasted time with ngondro so far. Pointless. I can't just put effort in something and see no result and keep doing it and reading some stuff...

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:23 am

Fruitzilla wrote:
quince wrote:Thank you for asking though. I am sorry I am just too tired i think it will be alright. i dont know. Thank you.
Take a break and catch your breath I say. It looks like you need some perspective, and to have perspective you need space. Just drop it all for a bit and see what comes up. You might be surprised.
Thank you for the advise - I will take a break an drop everything. Anyway I can't do anything else.

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:28 am

Saoshun wrote:Your view is obscured. You do not look at lamas with trust or faith because it will create delusion. If lama can help you realize some thing about you and help you recognize it and point out everything you need to do to have effects - you do it and if works you can follow this lama, if not either you did something wrong or not put effort or lama is missing prajna.

I suggest you to focus on yourself because the "I" is a problem. Lama only stirring your "bullcrap" you accumulated thru various life-times, it's something you need investigate from where it coming, where it staying and where is going, these emotions and thoughts so maybe stop being defensive to this lama and start with building virtues otherwise you will be impatient. So I will suggest you firstly to investigate the problem which obviously arise withing yourself next build good foundation to practice buddhism and spiritual cultivation and it takes years to gather merits and virtues for this way of life also discipline.
Thank you. I will see what will happend. I am too tired to investigare. Too crowded around here.

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:33 am

Soap-Bubble wrote:Often teachers have no big influence on what's going on and people around them make decisions. Closing your center might have never been his intent, his might have even been against it, but... Samsara!

In your shoes I would grab the last straw and email him or maybe reach him through other people and tell him about the problem and how it affects practicing. Even if it's embarrassing to say that you feel abandoned and even lost faith in him. After all, he's your teacher and will give you the best advice he can about the situation.
He is not answering my emails. too busy.

Saoshun
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Saoshun » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:37 am

Recognition is not an action but quality of natural state. You said "It's to crowded" and "I'm too tired" how do you know this? See you recognize it, it's natural state. Just recognize it but do not do anything with it. Just recognize so you will be in that natural state without any effort.


So it take no effort just recognize whatever there is to be recognized and do not try to make something else out of it. The way it is it's the way it is fully, it cannot be anything less or more, if you recognize it that "I'm tired" etc that's it do not make stories out of it inside your thought stream and things will naturally settle as your ignorance.

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:44 am

Saoshun wrote:Recognition is not an action but quality of natural state. You said "It's to crowded" and "I'm too tired" how do you know this? See you recognize it, it's natural state. Just recognize it but do not do anything with it. Just recognize so you will be in that natural state without any effort.


So it take no effort just recognize whatever there is to be recognized and do not try to make something else out of it. The way it is it's the way it is fully, it cannot be anything less or more, if you recognize it that "I'm tired" etc that's it do not make stories out of it inside your thought stream and things will naturally settle as your ignorance.
I don't uderstand that. I recognize it, but so what. This doesnt make me feel better.

hop.pala
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by hop.pala » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:16 pm

Also, did somebody here doubted their Lama judging by the condition of sangha members around you
All this religion is that kill your personality.The declaration of buddhism is that an boddhisattva can do anything,is the idea that the human being can do anything,and the explanation is that Buddha is god,what you can not outbid.

Saoshun
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Saoshun » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:18 pm

Yes, this is the nature of mind. So what? = EXCATLY. If you say something like "Oh look tree" people will be "so what?" or "O you have red nails" and there is so what? is he thinking that is nice or do not like it? If you can keep awareness only or recognition without "so what" you will naturally transcend the limitations of dualism and natural state will clarify.

You all the time recognizing "It does not make me feel better." This is it. If you truly start recognize without any "so what" you will be better but not in the sense of dualism. Subject and object will slowly disappear. It's cool method to clarify all obstructions which you have if you can be aware and do not stir or do anything beside recognition. Recognize the sounds around you, the breath, the feeling (pleasant or unpleasant).

This is mostly problem that people face in their spiritual path, they can't recognize properly the experiences. If you recognize something and say "I don't feel better" it's delusion, it's means that you do not recognizing it's just move 1 second look into situation and going back to chit chat about it.

Recognizing it's simple tool to became aware of natural state. It's not something that you do, because recognition it's always there is basic state, if you can just be aware of recognition without anything else (moving) then the dust will settle naturally if it's not stirred all the time.

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:30 pm

Saoshun wrote:Yes, this is the nature of mind. So what? = EXCATLY. If you say something like "Oh look tree" people will be "so what?" or "O you have red nails" and there is so what? is he thinking that is nice or do not like it? If you can keep awareness only or recognition without "so what" you will naturally transcend the limitations of dualism and natural state will clarify.

You all the time recognizing "It does not make me feel better." This is it. If you truly start recognize without any "so what" you will be better but not in the sense of dualism. Subject and object will slowly disappear. It's cool method to clarify all obstructions which you have if you can be aware and do not stir or do anything beside recognition. Recognize the sounds around you, the breath, the feeling (pleasant or unpleasant).

This is mostly problem that people face in their spiritual path, they can't recognize properly the experiences. If you recognize something and say "I don't feel better" it's delusion, it's means that you do not recognizing it's just move 1 second look into situation and going back to chit chat about it.

Recognizing it's simple tool to became aware of natural state. It's not something that you do, because recognition it's always there is basic state, if you can just be aware of recognition without anything else (moving) then the dust will settle naturally if it's not stirred all the time.
I know what you are saying. If I were living in a cave somewhere or had nothing to do i would probably do it easily. But since i have to go to work and as i said it is too crowded around, i feel obliged to do something to start feeling better, to work better, to communicate with some people better.

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Ayu
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Ayu » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:15 pm

I consider thoughts like yours as a part of ngöndro. Hindrances have to occure and that's rather a sign of cleansing karma than of less ability.

I don't understand why the Ngöndro is not possible to do besides your work. Do you have a time limit that creates pressure?
I know old people who are actually planning to finish prostrations within the next ten years.
Myself, I have to become 75 years old to finish them correctly, because I can not do more than 12 per day due to back problems. Nobody can tell me to do more, because it's not possible. But that's no reason for me to stopp the practice.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:19 pm

Ayu wrote:I consider thoughts like yours as a part of ngöndro. Hindrances have to occure and that's rather a sign of cleansing karma than of less ability.

I don't understand why the Ngöndro is not possible to do besides your work. Do you have a time limit that creates pressure?
I know old people who are actually planning to finish prostrations within the next ten years.
Myself, I have to become 75 years old to finish them correctly, because I can not do more than 12 per day due to back problems. Nobody can tell me to do more, because it's not possible. But that's no reason for me to stopp the practice.
I just want a nice calm life. I dont understand why i have to go through all of these.

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Ayu
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Ayu » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:21 pm

How does spiritual practice disturb a nice & calm life? One can do it all nicely and calmly :smile:
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:24 pm

Ayu wrote:How does spiritual practice disturb a nice & calm life? One can do it all nicely and calmly :smile:
Well as i said ever since i started the ngondro all i have is this obstacles and this is meaningless.

quince
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by quince » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:35 pm

Anyway, i will just really stick with it. Just recognize it, or at least try, because i keep turning my head away, and i hope it will get bearable till Monday.

May be in some time i will be able to go back to practice.

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Ayu
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Ayu » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:44 pm

I can not tell you anything about your mind.
But in my mind I see many untrue perceptions. As soon as my approach to the Ngöndro gets ambitious, the hindrances bank up. My only chance to deal with that is to let go all ambitions. This is an everlasting excercise for me. Meanwhile I enjoy practicing, because I feel the non-material benefits.
So this thing has different layers for me: obvious struggle, but great joy and relief under the surface.
My trick is not to fight myself but to convince me. There is some kind of inner child inside that has to be convinced and treated well.
I'm not a robot of counting.
I have decided to stick with love.
Hate is too great a burden to bear.
- Martin Luther King, Jr. -

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Paul
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Paul » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:58 pm

quince wrote:Anyway, i will just really stick with it. Just recognize it, or at least try, because i keep turning my head away, and i hope it will get bearable till Monday.

May be in some time i will be able to go back to practice.
Practice can get annoying in some ways, but it is important to be able to automatically see how nothing else is worthwhile. This is why I really like contemplating impermanence. If I get engrossed in something then thinking about how it is just not satisfactory as it will fall apart, regardless of what it is, means it just doesn't remain very interesting for very long. This has a remarkable effect of reducing stress in general.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell

Saoshun
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Saoshun » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:21 pm

If you have want to have nice and calm life do not practice spiritual cultivation because spiritual cultivation is about disturbing you and shake of your "bullshit" off the awareness.

Practice 4 lessons of Liao Fan and you will have calm, wealthy and beautiful life. You do not need any of spiritual practices to do to have that life. Just create good merit, meditate a little and that's done.

Living in cave or doing something or not doing got nothing to do with recognition, it's just excuse to not do it and to not watch what happens. You do not get anything for free. There is no remedie for you life unless you figure it out by yourself and cultivate it by yourself. Nobody will tell you what to do with your life unless you create it the way you want it. Otherwise you will be like ping pong ball bouncing here and there crying how is life sad and bad.


Just do not do something with recognition if it's recognized that's it, no more no less. Can you hand be something more then it is right now? You are expecting that life will be something different then it is like people in relationship expect to be with someone else, an idea in their mind like this teasing you. Do this so, can you see this moment is inevitable?

Look closely, investigate as you would search for dropped coin that fall off from your hand. When you have leg bend can you have it's straight? When you have leg straight can you have it bend? This is what you are doing right now. Trying to have something which is impossible. Look closely and be aware of inevitability of actual situation and moment. If you accept it nothing change, if you cannot accept nothing will change also but when you will see inevitability of actual moment and situation it will not touch you and you will figure it out your situation.
Last edited by Saoshun on Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Malcolm
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Re: Lama and trust

Post by Malcolm » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:26 pm

quince wrote:
Ayu wrote:How does spiritual practice disturb a nice & calm life? One can do it all nicely and calmly :smile:
Well as i said ever since i started the ngondro all i have is this obstacles and this is meaningless.
Samsara is a bigger obstacle than Ngondro. Let me ask you as question, have you received any major empowerments such as Hevajra and the like, and if so from whom?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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