Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
amanitamusc
Posts: 1393
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:32 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:47 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:28 am
Personally, I consider it the very opposite of sexual misconduct.
Thats queer,i took you for a bottom. :consoling:

smcj
Posts: 5858
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by smcj » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:48 am

I always thought it was based on something to do with the winds and channels. But I’m just guessing.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

rai
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:58 pm

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by rai » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:54 am

i seem to remember Namrdol mentioning on e-sangha that it can disturb inner deities (or 5 personal deities?)

User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3774
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Adamantine » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:32 am

Well I only posted here re: the Cabezon book update, however since the thread is coming back to life I’ll cross reference from the WOMPT and sex thread this quote from Malcolm from some time ago:
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:00 pm
If you are a lay tantric practitioner you need to practice the yoga of passion, perceving yourself as a heruka and your partner as a dakini (for example, Kalacakra and Vishvamata). The yoga of passion is not connected with the completion stage, it is connected with the creation stage, so there is no need to worry about losing semen and so on.

As far as which orifice, etc., this is mainly a sutrayāna affair. There are no restrictions for a practitioner practicing the yoga of passion. The body of a deity is completely pure.


N
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

User avatar
Anders
Posts: 1167
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Anders » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:44 am

I think this fails the test on the five precepts being common sense practices, who have a distinct moral character whose harmfulness when broken are readily observable.

I am not inherently opposed to practices with magic assumptions, but the five precepts follow a more fundamental and universal standard. Theory crafting on orifices and degrees of intent and so forth is just not within their purview.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra

Simon E.
Posts: 5637
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Simon E. » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:28 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:32 am
Well I only posted here re: the Cabezon book update, however since the thread is coming back to life I’ll cross reference from the WOMPT and sex thread this quote from Malcolm from some time ago:
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:00 pm
If you are a lay tantric practitioner you need to practice the yoga of passion, perceving yourself as a heruka and your partner as a dakini (for example, Kalacakra and Vishvamata). The yoga of passion is not connected with the completion stage, it is connected with the creation stage, so there is no need to worry about losing semen and so on.

As far as which orifice, etc., this is mainly a sutrayāna affair. There are no restrictions for a practitioner practicing the yoga of passion. The body of a deity is completely pure.


N

This.
Back to fishin' folks... :namaste:

User avatar
Matt J
Posts: 732
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:29 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Matt J » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:08 pm

Are people just digging for stuff to be worried about? I've never heard a single teacher talk on this topic.
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

kausalya
Posts: 192
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:52 pm

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by kausalya » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:18 pm

Alex Berzin is right about one thing: it all comes down to how honest people are willing to be with themselves.

Perhaps with the exception of sexual orientation itself, our predilections for one or another type of activity aren't part of ourselves, either in this life or in any other life. We're just deeply conditioned, and we may or may not have things that we're not willing to give up.

The question of whether or not something amounts to misconduct is wholly dependent on the mind of the individual & their circumstances.

You can't play games with karma, but if you act with as pure an intention as possible, karma is no longer a problem. (I would liken this to a person who has a legitimate need for medical marijuana, for example, vs. someone who mostly uses it for entertainment purposes. Someone who starts in one category could end up in another.)

Our karma is our own responsibility, so we owe it to ourselves to be thorough in our analysis. We don't want to create further problems for ourselves or others, which would happen if we were to fool ourselves about something we could in fact give up.
"Open sky does not abide, nor do sentient beings."

User avatar
yan kong
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:01 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by yan kong » Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:51 pm

Matt J wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:08 pm
Are people just digging for stuff to be worried about? I've never heard a single teacher talk on this topic.
Several sources were given in this topic.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

oldbob
Posts: 730
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:19 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by oldbob » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:17 pm

Delicate personal matter.

Perhaps best spoken with your own teacher, privately, at the right time and in a suitable context.

That said.

I heard from several sources that when HH Dudjom Rinpoche was asked a similar question he replied, "any hole will do."

That said.

The profound danger of AIDS in this age is real and unprotected sex with a partner you do not trust completely is the same as Russian roulette.

That said.

Condoms break and fall off.

That said.

The tablam is not for everyone and can easily lead to addiction.

That said.

Enjoy! - Very carefully.

User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3774
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Adamantine » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:55 pm

oldbob wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:17 pm

The tablam is not for everyone and can easily lead to addiction.

That said.

Enjoy! - Very carefully.
This? https://www.heraldgoa.in/Goa/Goa-Social ... 92157.html
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

Tenma
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Tenma » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:24 am

Loren wrote:
Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:52 pm
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... cript.html
And in one Indian commentary to this text, it explains that having sex with a pregnant woman is inappropriate because it causes harm to the baby inside her womb
off topic but that is not what the ob/gyn and midwife told us.
In my health class, someone asked what happened if a person had sex with a pregnant woman. Surprisingly, this is not harmful(as long as both persons don't have HIV, STDS, etc.) because as the woman already has a "protective field" around the fetus, it blocks off any sperm, later killing them in the process. So yes, it's actually safe and won't harm the protected fetus.

User avatar
Wayfarer
Global Moderator
Posts: 4226
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:31 am
Location: Sydney AU

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Wayfarer » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:25 am

I have bought the Cabezon book, although haven’t made a lot of headway with it yet.

What I notice is that how nearly everyone seems unaware of the sexual revolution. It’s like, it’s happened, and now it’s just the new normal - what it used to be like before then isn’t considered any more. But, before the sexual revolution happened, a lot of activities that since are just taken for granted, were taboo. The pre- and post-revolution worlds are different worlds. Unless that is understood that the question makes no sense.
Only practice with no gaining idea ~ Suzuki Roshi

florin
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:05 pm

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by florin » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:39 am

Rechungpa.
“The path of the supreme yoga it is not the path of accomplished sages of the past. Whoever enters onto the path of the sages of the past will end up gripped by the sicknesses of the path - meditation, attachment, and exertion.”Thig le drug pa.

“Everything of the universe of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa arises as the enlightened energy of the one self-perfected Natural Presence. But these teachers still mistakenly teach that disciples should fabricate enlightenment by applying discipline, renunciation, interruption, purification and transformation”.

User avatar
justsit
Posts: 946
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by justsit » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:00 am

oldbob wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:17 pm
...The tablam is not for everyone and can easily lead to addiction.
:good:

I wasn't familiar with the term tablam so went a-googlin.' Came across this article https://tricycle.org/magazine/becoming-buddha/ some might find interesting.

User avatar
Sennin
Posts: 741
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Sennin » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:02 am

florin wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:39 am
Rechungpa.
I don't get it :?:
Namo Guru Bhyaḥ

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8436
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:16 am

Wayfarer wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:25 am
I have bought the Cabezon book, although haven’t made a lot of headway with it yet.

What I notice is that how nearly everyone seems unaware of the sexual revolution. It’s like, it’s happened, and now it’s just the new normal - what it used to be like before then isn’t considered any more. But, before the sexual revolution happened, a lot of activities that since are just taken for granted, were taboo. The pre- and post-revolution worlds are different worlds. Unless that is understood that the question makes no sense.
People probably thought they were even more fun when they were taboo. People still did them, you can find evidence of such -long- prior to the sexual revolution.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 8436
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:19 am

Matt J wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:08 pm
Are people just digging for stuff to be worried about? I've never heard a single teacher talk on this topic.
The are lists of sexual misconduct that certainly mention them. They also meant lots of culturally divorced stuff like no sex before sundown, etc. if I recall. Honestly they are few and far between and often the work of celibate renunciate, I struggle with the idea that these are something to be taken as seriously as other ethical concerns in daily life, but if a teacher gave a reasoned argument I would listen.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

boda
Posts: 1930
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:40 pm

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by boda » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:21 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:19 pm
Malcolm wrote:I think it has more to do with hygiene. Tulku Urgyen was once heard to remark "Why would anyone want to put their mouth there?"
Combine that with the prevailing hygiene standards around the time these rules were written and you start to get an idea of why it might not have been (or is, in many cases) such a good idea.
Supposedly if you pee right after is greatly reduces the risk of an ETI. Probably didn’t know that in the oldtimey days.

Tenma
Posts: 719
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Why is Oral Sex Considered Sexual Misconduct?

Post by Tenma » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:22 am

Does tantra actually have the practitioners engage in these acts? Or is it just visualizations and symbolism? Because I recall from my mundane days reading about oral sex being a tantric practice(not getting into the details).

Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dragpo, Jyotish, Markus and 85 guests