This is a point that is not widely understood, and it needs to be.Malcolm wrote:No, I explained this already. In Vajrayāna you do not renounce sense objects, in lower yānas, you do. It is therefore not a path of renunciation.
This is distinct from having renunciation, which is necessary to practice any path at all.
Except in presentation I don't see much difference between Malcolm and Tsongkhapafan in this.
I see the difference in the two posts as being one of emphasis. Malcolm's post does do a better job of explaining the distinction between the need for renunciation as a foundation for Vajrayana and how the path itself can be characterized as not having renunciation.Tsongkhapafan wrote:There is no spiritual path without renunciation as the very definition of a spiritual path is an exalted awareness conjoined with non-fabricated renunciation, so of course the Vajrayana is a path of renunciation - it's a supramundane path if practised properly.
Objects are not contaminated from their own side, so if you remember emptiness, your enjoyment is not a cause of samsara.
My understanding is "having renunciation" means renouncing samsara and your own ignorance. Being able to maintain that attitude while embracing everything life throws at you as an opportunity to grow spiritually is unique to Vajrayana. That is still within the framework of renunciation. It is a renunciation so deep that any situation in life cannot disturb it, and so in every situation you can apply a dharma principle to increase merit and awareness. In the lower yanas the renunciation is not deep enough to handle every situation as opportunity for Dharma. The practitioner would get enmeshed in the appearances of it.
I think both Malcolm and Tsongkhapafan will both agree, perhaps with more detail.