Efficacy of Vajrayana Skillful Means

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Post Reply

Efficacy of Vajrayana Skillful Means

These practices have a tangible impact on our world
15
71%
These practices just increase positive conditions
2
10%
These practices just increase positive mental states
0
No votes
These practices don't do anything-- superstition
1
5%
I don't know
3
14%
 
Total votes: 21

Urgyen Dorje
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:44 pm

Efficacy of Vajrayana Skillful Means

Post by Urgyen Dorje » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:45 am

Just for giggles I am doing my first poll on DW.

There have been quite a few threads on social justice issues such as the climate and the wellbeing of stock animals. It got me wondering what people thought of the efficacy of many of these Vajrayana skillful means such as sang and sur offerings, offerings to lokapalas, geg tor offerings to obstructors, dharmapalas, long life practices, and so on. We live in a time and place where scientific materialism prevails, and the enchantment of the world is lost. Do we believe in the efficacy of these practices? Are they ways to bring benefit to our world? Or just methods of making some positive connections? Or just ways to create positive mental states? Or are they all just cultural hocus pocus not fitting of modern minds?

The choices are not meant to be rigorous or exhaustive, so feel free to slug it out.

The inspiration is a moment with a teacher last year... We're discussing dharmapalas and he pauses and says, "you know, we Tibetans actually believe in the protectors"... got us talking, got me thinking...

User avatar
smcj
Posts: 5480
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Efficacy of Vajrayana Skillful Means

Post by smcj » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:55 am

"you know, we Tibetans actually believe in the protectors".
Yes, I do know.
.. got us talking, got me thinking...
As it should.

Malcolm has mentioned that one of his Nyingma teachers was Yeshe Dorje R., who was tasked by HHDL to make sure that the Tibetans had enough rain for their crops. So I think I know how HHDL would vote in this poll.

Too bad Yeshe Dorje has passed away. California could use him right about now.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
*****
Once in a while you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Robert Hunter

User avatar
ClearblueSky
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:27 am

Re: Efficacy of Vajrayana Skillful Means

Post by ClearblueSky » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:10 am

That's an interesting poll, but I don't think I can give just one answer that would apply. For example I could believe in things like long life practices and dharmapalas, but not believe in weather control by local deities. I will say that pretty much anything that has black and white been proven to be false science I usually don't believe in (especially more "worldly" matters), and things that are more ambiguous (can't prove it true or untrue), I believe sometimes, sometimes not.

Urgyen Dorje
Posts: 774
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 5:44 pm

Re: Efficacy of Vajrayana Skillful Means

Post by Urgyen Dorje » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:32 am

It was interesting to me in the climate change thread that we got into this climate science and a Kunga Lhadzom mentioned Nagas being unhappy and that went unnoticed. I know my teachers take this seriously. Sang Cho. Achi and Achi sang. Sur. I've been accumulating sang offerings...

... but then in the climate change thread we start talking about truth claims with climate deniers-- what basis do we have to make truth claims about the efficacy of sang and sur and so on... We do have the words of the great masters, but we must have our own experience if we are diligent practitioners...

I know for me Achi is very powerful, as is Riwo Sang Cho of Lhatson Namkhai Jigme.

User avatar
lobster
Posts: 1001
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Efficacy of Vajrayana Skillful Means

Post by lobster » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:12 am

I voted for 'who cares' :woohoo:
because of the non-dharma saying 'Who Cares Wins' :rolleye:

Thanks for poll :thumbsup:

User avatar
ClearblueSky
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:27 am

Re: Efficacy of Vajrayana Skillful Means

Post by ClearblueSky » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:36 am

Urgyen Dorje wrote:It was interesting to me in the climate change thread that we got into this climate science and a Kunga Lhadzom mentioned Nagas being unhappy and that went unnoticed. I know my teachers take this seriously. Sang Cho. Achi and Achi sang. Sur. I've been accumulating sang offerings...

... but then in the climate change thread we start talking about truth claims with climate deniers-- what basis do we have to make truth claims about the efficacy of sang and sur and so on... We do have the words of the great masters, but we must have our own experience if we are diligent practitioners...

I know for me Achi is very powerful, as is Riwo Sang Cho of Lhatson Namkhai Jigme.
And also don't get me wrong, even if something is not quite in line with science, it may still have some value, I just think it should be private practice you do more along the lines of keeping your mind in line with the lineage, as opposed to believing "it actually works that way", or telling people that's the case. Basically I just mean I agree with the "“If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.” quote from HH the 14th Dalai Lama, strongly.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], heart and 46 guests