The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

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Sennin
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Sennin » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:50 pm

IME it's best to work with our individual capacities, and move beyond judgements and limitations.
Namo Guru Bhyaḥ

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:20 am

pemachophel wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:53 pm
Hugger,

"I hope he also took full responsibility for such things as car accidents caused by exhausted and sleep-deprived students of his, trying to work, practice and have a family life at the same time -- essentially, trying to live two lives at the same time, one of a dharmic "profesional," the other of a Western regular joe."

Have you tried dag-nang (pure vision) yet? :D

The five transformations when listening to the Dharma:

1. The Teacher as whatever Buddha is associated with the teaching or as Shakyamuni, Guru Rinpoche, etc. In other words, if the teaching is about Manjushri, then the Teacher is Manjushri. If the teaching is about Avalokiteshwara, then the Teacher is Avalokiteshwara. If the teaching is originally by Guru Rinpoche, then the Teacher is Guru Rinpoche.
2. The place as that Buddha's field, e.g., Potala, Sukhavati, Pema Od
3. The time as the fourth time, i.e., the time beyond past, present, and future
4. Those other listeners as that Buddha's Bodhisatva/Bodhisatvi disciples or as Pawos and Dakinis
5. The Teaching as the highest, most precious Teaching which is most applicable directly to you

IME, if one listens to the Dharma with one's ordinary discursive mind filled with dualism and doubt, maybe yes, maybe no, hard to get much traction.

Similarly, hard to make much progress if one is "trying to live two lives," one Dharmic and the other samsaric. In my experience, the trick is to live one's life Dharmically regardless of the activities one is engaged in. There does not need to be any separation. There's a way to make any activity a Dharmic activity as long as it is not inherently non-virtuous. That's the skillful means of Vajrayana. But it all depends on dag-nang and, moment by moment, implementing those skillful means. As they say, practice makes perfect. Granted, this is easier said than done, but who said attaining perfectly complete, unsurpassed Enlightnement was easy
I think we are talking past each other here.

I wholeheartedly agree that we have to make as much of our life as possible (all of it, ultimately) into Dharma activity. There is plainly no other way.

Then there is the question of our formal practice -- a type of Dharmic activity which, while entirely necessary for us Western householders, poses a particular challenge. To illustrate: in the traditional framework, a committed practitioner (the, for the lack of better words, "Dharmic professional") goes into retreat, which will last at least three years and during which he or she probably will not have any non-religious duties (hence the opportunity to focus almost solely on formal practice, doing a complete ngondro in three months, etc). I can readily imagine that if one is relatively healthy, and enjoys a community support (or at least the support of a culture which on some level recognises the validity of that sort of endeavour) one could sleep very little indeed. Those of us who already have families and are forced to have regular, 9-5 jobs find themselves in an entirely different situation -- our non-religious duties consume the better part of our lives, and finding time for regular formal practice will be often very difficult indeed. We also need our sleep (and food, decent health, etc.) -- and yes, it is a tightrope walk, precisely the one which I had in mind when I wrote of us struggling to lead two lives at the same time. The fact that the Western world (which at least a part of our family, friends, neighbours very, very much belong to) perceives what we do as either a form of insanity or a eccentric leisure activity does not help either, euphemistically put.

I can allocate between two and three hours a day to my formal practice. At least once in a fortnight, on average, I am so tired that I literally fall asleep on the cushion. Cutting down on sleep would be just plainly irresponsible, to put it mildly. (Actually, I have discovered that not exceeding two hours of formal practice a day and allowing myself to skip sessions when I am really tired both increases the quality of my formal practice and greatly helps the Dharma to seep into my post-session life.)
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Malcolm
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Malcolm » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:12 pm

According to Tibetan Medicine, one needs 8 hours of sleep. One should try to be asleep by 10, and one should rise at six. But since I am a terrible practitioner, I never follow even this advice. I am usually asleep by midnight, and awake between 8 or 9.

The best pure vision approach is original purity, that includes everything.

Practitioners are liberation through seeing by nature, whether they sleep alot or not, and whether they practice 30 seconds a day or 24 hours.

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:20 am
pemachophel wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:53 pm
Hugger,

"I hope he also took full responsibility for such things as car accidents caused by exhausted and sleep-deprived students of his, trying to work, practice and have a family life at the same time -- essentially, trying to live two lives at the same time, one of a dharmic "profesional," the other of a Western regular joe."

Have you tried dag-nang (pure vision) yet? :D

The five transformations when listening to the Dharma:

1. The Teacher as whatever Buddha is associated with the teaching or as Shakyamuni, Guru Rinpoche, etc. In other words, if the teaching is about Manjushri, then the Teacher is Manjushri. If the teaching is about Avalokiteshwara, then the Teacher is Avalokiteshwara. If the teaching is originally by Guru Rinpoche, then the Teacher is Guru Rinpoche.
2. The place as that Buddha's field, e.g., Potala, Sukhavati, Pema Od
3. The time as the fourth time, i.e., the time beyond past, present, and future
4. Those other listeners as that Buddha's Bodhisatva/Bodhisatvi disciples or as Pawos and Dakinis
5. The Teaching as the highest, most precious Teaching which is most applicable directly to you

IME, if one listens to the Dharma with one's ordinary discursive mind filled with dualism and doubt, maybe yes, maybe no, hard to get much traction.

Similarly, hard to make much progress if one is "trying to live two lives," one Dharmic and the other samsaric. In my experience, the trick is to live one's life Dharmically regardless of the activities one is engaged in. There does not need to be any separation. There's a way to make any activity a Dharmic activity as long as it is not inherently non-virtuous. That's the skillful means of Vajrayana. But it all depends on dag-nang and, moment by moment, implementing those skillful means. As they say, practice makes perfect. Granted, this is easier said than done, but who said attaining perfectly complete, unsurpassed Enlightnement was easy
I think we are talking past each other here.

I wholeheartedly agree that we have to make as much of our life as possible (all of it, ultimately) into Dharma activity. There is plainly no other way.

Then there is the question of our formal practice -- a type of Dharmic activity which, while entirely necessary for us Western householders, poses a particular challenge. To illustrate: in the traditional framework, a committed practitioner (the, for the lack of better words, "Dharmic professional") goes into retreat, which will last at least three years and during which he or she probably will not have any non-religious duties (hence the opportunity to focus almost solely on formal practice, doing a complete ngondro in three months, etc). I can readily imagine that if one is relatively healthy, and enjoys a community support (or at least the support of a culture which on some level recognises the validity of that sort of endeavour) one could sleep very little indeed. Those of us who already have families and are forced to have regular, 9-5 jobs find themselves in an entirely different situation -- our non-religious duties consume the better part of our lives, and finding time for regular formal practice will be often very difficult indeed. We also need our sleep (and food, decent health, etc.) -- and yes, it is a tightrope walk, precisely the one which I had in mind when I wrote of us struggling to lead two lives at the same time. The fact that the Western world (which at least a part of our family, friends, neighbours very, very much belong to) perceives what we do as either a form of insanity or a eccentric leisure activity does not help either, euphemistically put.

I can allocate between two and three hours a day to my formal practice. At least once in a fortnight, on average, I am so tired that I literally fall asleep on the cushion. Cutting down on sleep would be just plainly irresponsible, to put it mildly. (Actually, I have discovered that not exceeding two hours of formal practice a day and allowing myself to skip sessions when I am really tired both increases the quality of my formal practice and greatly helps the Dharma to seep into my post-session life.)
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:44 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:12 pm
Practitioners are liberation through seeing by nature, whether they sleep alot or not, and whether they practice 30 seconds a day or 24 hours.
Malcolm, would you be so kind as to unpack it a bit?

PS. 8 hours of sleep sounds just right.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Lingpupa
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Lingpupa » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:50 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:12 pm
According to Tibetan Medicine, one needs 8 hours of sleep. One should try to be asleep by 10, and one should rise at six. But since I am a terrible practitioner, I never follow even this advice. I am usually asleep by midnight, and awake between 8 or 9.
Being fair to yourself and others who don't get to bed before 10, this advice was formulated before we had electric light.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:34 am

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:12 pm
According to Tibetan Medicine, one needs 8 hours of sleep. One should try to be asleep by 10, and one should rise at six. But since I am a terrible practitioner, I never follow even this advice. I am usually asleep by midnight, and awake between 8 or 9.

The best pure vision approach is original purity, that includes everything.

Practitioners are liberation through seeing by nature, whether they sleep alot or not, and whether they practice 30 seconds a day or 24 hours.

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:20 am
pemachophel wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:53 pm
Hugger,

"I hope he also took full responsibility for such things as car accidents caused by exhausted and sleep-deprived students of his, trying to work, practice and have a family life at the same time -- essentially, trying to live two lives at the same time, one of a dharmic "profesional," the other of a Western regular joe."

Have you tried dag-nang (pure vision) yet? :D

The five transformations when listening to the Dharma:

1. The Teacher as whatever Buddha is associated with the teaching or as Shakyamuni, Guru Rinpoche, etc. In other words, if the teaching is about Manjushri, then the Teacher is Manjushri. If the teaching is about Avalokiteshwara, then the Teacher is Avalokiteshwara. If the teaching is originally by Guru Rinpoche, then the Teacher is Guru Rinpoche.
2. The place as that Buddha's field, e.g., Potala, Sukhavati, Pema Od
3. The time as the fourth time, i.e., the time beyond past, present, and future
4. Those other listeners as that Buddha's Bodhisatva/Bodhisatvi disciples or as Pawos and Dakinis
5. The Teaching as the highest, most precious Teaching which is most applicable directly to you

IME, if one listens to the Dharma with one's ordinary discursive mind filled with dualism and doubt, maybe yes, maybe no, hard to get much traction.

Similarly, hard to make much progress if one is "trying to live two lives," one Dharmic and the other samsaric. In my experience, the trick is to live one's life Dharmically regardless of the activities one is engaged in. There does not need to be any separation. There's a way to make any activity a Dharmic activity as long as it is not inherently non-virtuous. That's the skillful means of Vajrayana. But it all depends on dag-nang and, moment by moment, implementing those skillful means. As they say, practice makes perfect. Granted, this is easier said than done, but who said attaining perfectly complete, unsurpassed Enlightnement was easy
I think we are talking past each other here.

I wholeheartedly agree that we have to make as much of our life as possible (all of it, ultimately) into Dharma activity. There is plainly no other way.

Then there is the question of our formal practice -- a type of Dharmic activity which, while entirely necessary for us Western householders, poses a particular challenge. To illustrate: in the traditional framework, a committed practitioner (the, for the lack of better words, "Dharmic professional") goes into retreat, which will last at least three years and during which he or she probably will not have any non-religious duties (hence the opportunity to focus almost solely on formal practice, doing a complete ngondro in three months, etc). I can readily imagine that if one is relatively healthy, and enjoys a community support (or at least the support of a culture which on some level recognises the validity of that sort of endeavour) one could sleep very little indeed. Those of us who already have families and are forced to have regular, 9-5 jobs find themselves in an entirely different situation -- our non-religious duties consume the better part of our lives, and finding time for regular formal practice will be often very difficult indeed. We also need our sleep (and food, decent health, etc.) -- and yes, it is a tightrope walk, precisely the one which I had in mind when I wrote of us struggling to lead two lives at the same time. The fact that the Western world (which at least a part of our family, friends, neighbours very, very much belong to) perceives what we do as either a form of insanity or a eccentric leisure activity does not help either, euphemistically put.

I can allocate between two and three hours a day to my formal practice. At least once in a fortnight, on average, I am so tired that I literally fall asleep on the cushion. Cutting down on sleep would be just plainly irresponsible, to put it mildly. (Actually, I have discovered that not exceeding two hours of formal practice a day and allowing myself to skip sessions when I am really tired both increases the quality of my formal practice and greatly helps the Dharma to seep into my post-session life.)
:good: You are clearly working with circumstances.

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:17 pm

heart wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:39 pm
conebeckham wrote:
heart wrote:
It isn't really a translation though.

/magnus

Really, Magnus? Have you compared it to the original text? I have not...to be clear. I know it's in the GyaChen KaDzo, and I suppose I could have a look.

Most of the book is commentary, frankly, from NgaWang Zangpo, laid out in smaller typeface, or maybe it's italics, I can't recall.....while the translated parts are in regular type. Do you think he left bits out?
I don't know if he did leave anything out but I don't like these books that tell you what is written in a text, like for example the recent Longchenpa biography by Jampa Mackenzie Stewart. I can't read Tibetan but it was obvious when I read Ngawang Zangpos text that it wasn't a translation but rather a narration about the GyaChen KaDzo just like Jampa Mackenzie Stewart's book.

/magnus
The problem is that Jampa doesn't know Tibetan, so he relied on available English resources to craft his book.

As he did with the life of Gampopa.

Very nice guy though.

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conebeckham
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by conebeckham » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:39 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:17 pm
heart wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:39 pm
conebeckham wrote:

Really, Magnus? Have you compared it to the original text? I have not...to be clear. I know it's in the GyaChen KaDzo, and I suppose I could have a look.

Most of the book is commentary, frankly, from NgaWang Zangpo, laid out in smaller typeface, or maybe it's italics, I can't recall.....while the translated parts are in regular type. Do you think he left bits out?
I don't know if he did leave anything out but I don't like these books that tell you what is written in a text, like for example the recent Longchenpa biography by Jampa Mackenzie Stewart. I can't read Tibetan but it was obvious when I read Ngawang Zangpos text that it wasn't a translation but rather a narration about the GyaChen KaDzo just like Jampa Mackenzie Stewart's book.

/magnus
The problem is that Jampa doesn't know Tibetan, so he relied on available English resources to craft his book.

As he did with the life of Gampopa.

Very nice guy though.
Well, I've read Jampa's book about Gampopa long ago, but don't recall.
I am certain, though, that Ngawang Zangpo knows some Tibetan, LOL. He has translated sadhanas and commentaries, has done several three year retreats using Tibetan texts, and is a published translator of several works.

https://www.shambhala.com/authors/u-z/n ... angpo.html

As for the "Retreat Manual," it is a combination of commentary written by himself, along with translation from the Tibetan. The fonts and layout are indications regarding when you are reading a translation, and when you are reading his own commentary. I reviewed the Tibetan text and compared it with the Snow Lion book, and I'm certain of this.

His "text on the GyaChen KaDzo" is, I assume, actually the Tsadra introduction to the DamNgak Dzo. It is entirely an introduction, not a translation. Thus far, only one volume of that series, the one dealing with Chod, translated by Sarah Harding, has been published. I heard that Hugh Leslie Thompson (Ngawang Zangpo) was working on at least some of the Shangpa material, but I don't have any information regarding publication, etc. I am certain that, regardless of who does the translation, these works will be actual translations, with plenty of commentarial text as well. Sarah Harding's volume included the translations of the texts she cites, as well as her intros and commentaries on these, and on the tradition in general.

I have some quibbles with his translation--mainly, that he translates some proper nouns into English, so, for instance, Hevajra becomes "Adamantine Joy" or some such thing, while actual humans are named by their proper names, i.e., Jamgon Kongtrul, instead of the "Lord of Love, The Kongpa Tulku," or Shantideva, instead of "God of Peace," LOL. Minor issue. May Swift Acting Fully Awakened Six Armed Protector correct me if I am wrong! :smile:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:32 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:35 pm
IME, as one progresses in their practice one needs less and less sleep.
True.

HH the 16th Gyalwang karmapa did not sleep much and could be seen walking around his Courtyard at Rumtek in the late night time.

Dzonsar khyentse Rinpoche recalls making Kora rounds with him at 3:30 am at Boudhnath.

The Great Yogi Khenpo karpo rinpooche of Bhutan did not sleep, he did some special yogic practices, however I don't recall what they were called.

There were many years (Believe it was 10) that H.E Garchen rinpoche would not lie down to sleep, but instead, meditate throughout the night on top of a small table.

I'm sure there are many examples, Garchen rinpoche and Tulku urgyen rinpoche have touched on the topic in their teachings. However, just a few that came to mind. Surely people who advance in meditation can require less sleep. However, sometimes it can be the opposite, Some Dream yogis like HH Minling trichen rinpoche would sleep a lot. That is the beauty of the Buddhadharma how it can benefit through a wide range of skillful means. I was told that he was even taken to a hospital once because they thought he was dead because his pulse had slowed down so much.. When he would wake up people would shuffle to get some time with him. I don't know for how long he was like this, but this was towards the end of his life. Fantastic yogi .. Was quite known for giving prophecies in his waking state.

A dharma friend from Asia told me that once he sent a letter to Shechen Gompa, it was addressed to Shechen rabjam rinpoche, however he wasn't around, and it wasn't opened in time. It recommended that they have to do a certain puja to advert obstacles of the Gompa..

As it wasn't done, one of the Monks from the Gompa ended up stabbing another monk to death at boudhnath.

He also gave a prophecy to Gyari rinpoche, one of the reasons he strongly supported the Phurba peace project of Lama dawa chokdrak rinpoche.

He says

"I have no doubt it will bring great benefit and protection of America and for world peace. In early 1992 during one of my visits with His Holiness Minling Trichen Rinpoche in India, he instructed that I ask the President to build an image of Vajrakilaya within the eyesight of Washington D. C. to protect America. He was very specific that America will be attacked unless an image of the Dorjee P'hurba was built.

Of course I knew the President will not build a P'hurba image, but I made several efforts myself, but did not succeed. I think some of local Sangha members are aware of some efforts I made. When Trichen Rinpoche told me that America will be attacked I did not take that very seriously thinking that such possibilities are very remote. But when 9/11 happened it became very clear what he meant. It was too late. I have however placed an image of Vajrakilaya at the rooftop of ICT (International Campaign for Tibet) with the hope that it will help keep our nation protected.

Lama Chhodak Rinpoche is good practitioner and highly qualified to undertake such a project.

While we make this humble contribution I urge you all to help for the realization of this hugely important project."

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Malcolm
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Malcolm » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:47 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:32 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:35 pm
IME, as one progresses in their practice one needs less and less sleep.
True.
As one gets older one needs less and less sleep. This is very normal.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Sennin
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Sennin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:02 pm

I'd be interested in a 'map' of traditional Nyingma retreats, correct me if I'm wrong but don't Nyingmas have 'shorter' retreats; "6 months on this" or "80 days" etc.
Namo Guru Bhyaḥ

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conebeckham
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by conebeckham » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:00 pm

Sennin wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:02 pm
I'd be interested in a 'map' of traditional Nyingma retreats, correct me if I'm wrong but don't Nyingmas have 'shorter' retreats; "6 months on this" or "80 days" etc.
Everyone has shorter retreats, as well. This was the norm, frankly, until Kongtrul.

If you're interested in a Nyingma curriculum, check out the appendix to "Entrance to the Great Perfection" by Cortland Dahl, which gives some specific info from Chadral Rinpoche's lineage of Longchen NyingThik.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by pemachophel » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:41 pm

Thanks Sonam-la. I had forgotten that story about Minling Trichen, Vajrakilaya, Lama Dawa.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by pemachophel » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pm

Sennin,

The typical first-time three-year-three-months Nyingma retreat:

Ngon-dro
Three Roots (Guru, Deva, Dakini)
Tsa-lung
Threk-chod/Thodgal

Plus a number of "secondary practices," such as sang, sur, chod, and the recitation of various sutras, dharanis, and monlam done during the "breaks."

Later three-year-three-month retreats can focus on a single practice depending on the advice of the Teacher and desires of the practitioner.

One can also do one week, one month, three months (100 days), one year, 12 year, and lifetime retreats depending on what you are trying to accomplish. For instance, dark retreats are commonly practiced either one week, 21 days, or 49 days, although some practitioners may practice in dark retreat for even years. Similarly there is the famous 100 springs chod "retreat." It's also possible to do retreats based on number, i.e., I'm not going to come out of retreat until I've said 10 million or even 100 million of a particular mantra. In addition, one can do retreats not based on time or number but rather on the signs of accomplishment, i.e., I'm not going to come out of retreat until such-and-such happens.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Sennin
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Sennin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:10 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:05 pm
Sennin,

The typical first-time three-year-three-months Nyingma retreat:

Ngon-dro
Three Roots (Guru, Deva, Dakini)
Tsa-lung
Threk-chod/Thodgal

Plus a number of "secondary practices," such as sang, sur, chod, and the recitation of various sutras, dharanis, and monlam done during the "breaks."

Later three-year-three-month retreats can focus on a single practice depending on the advice of the Teacher and desires of the practitioner.

One can also do one week, one month, three months (100 days), one year, 12 year, and lifetime retreats depending on what you are trying to accomplish. For instance, dark retreats are commonly practiced either one week, 21 days, or 49 days, although some practitioners may practice in dark retreat for even years. Similarly there is the famous 100 springs chod "retreat." It's also possible to do retreats based on number, i.e., I'm not going to come out of retreat until I've said 10 million or even 100 million of a particular mantra. In addition, one can do retreats not based on time or number but rather on the signs of accomplishment, i.e., I'm not going to come out of retreat until such-and-such happens.
:good: Thanks.
Namo Guru Bhyaḥ

MiphamFan
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by MiphamFan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:35 am

conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:00 pm
Sennin wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:02 pm
I'd be interested in a 'map' of traditional Nyingma retreats, correct me if I'm wrong but don't Nyingmas have 'shorter' retreats; "6 months on this" or "80 days" etc.
Everyone has shorter retreats, as well. This was the norm, frankly, until Kongtrul.

If you're interested in a Nyingma curriculum, check out the appendix to "Entrance to the Great Perfection" by Cortland Dahl, which gives some specific info from Chadral Rinpoche's lineage of Longchen NyingThik.
Actually I thought Jigme Lingpa received the Longchen Nyingthig through a series of three year retreats?

MiphamFan
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by MiphamFan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:40 am

Regarding sleep, one thing I observed in myself is that if I go to bed around 10pm I sleep quite well and often feel refreshed even with just 5-6 hours sleep.

If I sleep around, or especially after, midnight, often I have difficulty falling asleep and I don't feel refreshed even after 8-9 hours.

I think it has to do with hormones and body temperature.

LolCat
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by LolCat » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:14 am

MiphamFan wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:40 am
Regarding sleep, one thing I observed in myself is that if I go to bed around 10pm I sleep quite well and often feel refreshed even with just 5-6 hours sleep.

If I sleep around, or especially after, midnight, often I have difficulty falling asleep and I don't feel refreshed even after 8-9 hours.

I think it has to do with hormones and body temperature.
This has been my experience as well. I feel much better if I fall asleep at around 9pm, but that is rare. The later I sleep the less refreshed I feel when I wake up, even if it has been for a longer duration.

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Sennin
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by Sennin » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:57 pm

On the schedule in the other retreat thread, the ngondro practices were given with a time frame of 45, 60 days. Are retreatants accumulating 100,000 during this time?
Namo Guru Bhyaḥ

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conebeckham
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Re: The Retreat Map--from Kongtrul's Retreat Manual

Post by conebeckham » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:26 pm

Sennin wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:57 pm
On the schedule in the other retreat thread, the ngondro practices were given with a time frame of 45, 60 days. Are retreatants accumulating 100,000 during this time?
You continue accumulating throughout the retreat, esp. prostrations. But you can accumulate a lot in 60 days, four sessions a day.Four sessions, 500 per session=2,000 a day. That's 120,000 in 60 days, eh?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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