Earth Termas - real objects?

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Nosta
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Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Nosta » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:32 pm

Hi!

I would like to know how much do you think that Earth Termas are real. I think thats such an increadible feat - to take out a sacred object from a rock for instance - that it seems to be in the realm of legends and fairy tales. Nevertheless, some buddhists masters (allegdly not liars, something that would destroy completly their morality) claimed to be able to retrieve such treasures (Chogyam Lingpa) while others said that they saw with their own eyes some of these objects (Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche for example).

What do you think?

And what about pictures of such objects? I think I found only 1 or 2 in the internet.

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heart
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by heart » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:51 pm

Chogyam Lingpa?

Earth termas do exist, even if it is difficult to grasp this.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Malcolm
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Malcolm » Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:52 pm

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu also witnessed earth treasure being revealed by his uncle.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Nosta
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Nosta » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:17 pm

Chokgyur was the name, sorry for my mistake.

Earth Termas being real is something extraordinary, and something that shows that reality is illusory. If not, how could it be possible to take out objects from air or rocks?

I suppose that in the present times there are not tertons able to do such things.

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Malcolm
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Malcolm » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:31 pm

Nosta wrote:Chokgyur was the name, sorry for my mistake.

Earth Termas being real is something extraordinary, and something that shows that reality is illusory. If not, how could it be possible to take out objects from air or rocks?

I suppose that in the present times there are not tertons able to do such things.
Sure there are. I have met two of them, now deceased, but they both revealed earth termas.


Khenpo Jigme Phunstok

Image

Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

Image
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

ngodrup
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by ngodrup » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:39 pm

There are tertons, absolutely.
They come in times like this, and I too have met a few.
And, although I have to witnessed the removal of earth
termas, I have been present when mind terma was being dictated.
Also seen earth terma objects of recent origin that the contemporary
witness was credible. So there's really no question.

Now, the question you raise-- what is a real object? These things
are as real as you are. How real is that?

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Nosta
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Nosta » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:01 pm

Its good seeing here people who met real tertons :)

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:21 pm

There's some interesting material about Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok's terma discoveries in this article:
http://www.buddhadharma.com/files/Remem ... rmano_.pdf
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

T. Chokyi
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by T. Chokyi » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:52 pm

Nosta wrote:Its good seeing here people who met real tertons :)
Yes it is, I met those two real tertons too. I flew out to MA to meet the first master mentioned here in the early 90's and the second master came to where I was studying out West, and stayed with some of the Sangha, he offered Thogal instruction while he stayed at Tashi Choling.

I believe CHNN is one of our living Tertons, but perhaps that's just how I see it, I believe his dreams are a form of Ter, and from what I've seen on the land at his Eastern Gar, the whole land is an Earth Terma, but that's just my take on Khandroling.

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Nosta
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Nosta » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:12 am

CHNN is Chogyal Namkhai Norbu? From his readings it seems that his dreams are some kind of termas.

Dzogchungpa: thanks for the pdf ;) I will read as soon as possible, it seems interesting.

tingdzin
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by tingdzin » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:30 am

Hannah Havelink (?) published a first-hand account of seeing a female terton in Tibet (who has since passed) reveal a terma from inside a boulder. She stripped to the waist so as to prove there was no deception involved before splitting the boulder and then reaching inside it for the terma. Ms. Havelink took pictures of the process. I can't recall what sort of objects were revealed, and I don't have her article with me, but Internet Searching the scholar's name might be enough to locate it (it's in a collection of short Tibetological studies by varied authors, maybe someone else knows). The title might be something like "Vast as the Sky"

The phenomena is genuine, but it's best not to make too much noise about it, because 1) bringing twilight matters into daylight (or, if you prefer, obsessing over them) tends to make them disappear, 2) delusional Westerners will start claiming they are tertons, and start claiming to have produced treasures (I believe this has already happened) 3) Uri Geller types will be on the scene with boxes full of electronic equipment and no respect for anything more sacred than their own careers, accompanied by hordes of yellow journalists.

tingdzin
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by tingdzin » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:53 am

Sorry, here's the citation: Hanna, S. "Vast as the Sky: the Terma Tradition in Modern Tibet" in the book "Tantra and Popular Religion in Tibet", ed. G. Samuel, H. Gregor, and E. Sutchbury, New Delhi 1994. Who knows, by now it may be digitalized.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:56 pm

Nosta wrote:Dzogchungpa: thanks for the pdf ;) I will read as soon as possible, it seems interesting.
The juicy part begins on p.13 of the pdf. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

YesheDronmar
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by YesheDronmar » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:37 am

Can someone offer a link to the PDF? I'd like to have a copy of it myself.
Thank you.

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:50 am

Yes, Earth terma's do exist.. There are of course many stories surrounding their revelations. However the proof is in the pudding.

It's obvious in dealing with the genuine tertons, just how amazing and genuine they are, and also Not only on the level of Sa (earth) Terma objects
Such as Phurba's, and statues, and all .. However the Various Sadhana's which were also revealed in scroll form .. The realized beings these terma's have produced.

I can see how one could have a doubt, something common place in this age of skepticism, but keeping an open mind, (as you sound like you are trying to do) is the way to proceed..

Tashi delek

jmlee369
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by jmlee369 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:36 pm

https://youtu.be/xSQsqB6QF9U?t=17m50s
Some interesting pictures of Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok retrieving terma from a lake. I think there are a few photos the actual terma objects somewhere in there too.

T. Chokyi
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by T. Chokyi » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:46 pm

YesheDronmar wrote:Can someone offer a link to the PDF? I'd like to have a copy of it myself.
Thank you.
You may have missed it, scroll nine posts up for the link, or you could go here:

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm ... 8120816285

YesheDronmar
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by YesheDronmar » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:21 pm

T. Chokyi wrote:
YesheDronmar wrote:Can someone offer a link to the PDF? I'd like to have a copy of it myself.
Thank you.
You may have missed it, scroll nine posts up for the link, or you could go here:

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm ... 8120816285
Thank you; much appreciated.

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Nosta
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Nosta » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:33 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:Yes, Earth terma's do exist.. There are of course many stories surrounding their revelations. However the proof is in the pudding.

It's obvious in dealing with the genuine tertons, just how amazing and genuine they are, and also Not only on the level of Sa (earth) Terma objects
Such as Phurba's, and statues, and all .. However the Various Sadhana's which were also revealed in scroll form .. The realized beings these terma's have produced.

I can see how one could have a doubt, something common place in this age of skepticism, but keeping an open mind, (as you sound like you are trying to do) is the way to proceed..

Tashi delek
Since we are dealing with real buddhist masters - that fully follow the precept of not lie - I believe that they are not decepting people (with illusionist tricks and so on) when retrieving termas. Unless they have some kind of secret practice -and this is just my imagination wandering - where they should do tricks to make people follow them or follow Buddhism. There is also the possibility that they may want win the respect, fear and adoration of people by doing tricks (recovering termas).

I prefer to believe in the idea that they have the power to transcend reality and make wonders like this, but as someone raised in a world filled with scientific knowledge, sometimes i question myself and have some doubts. A little bit like the Pure Land teachings: sometimes I think that they are to much wonderful to be real!

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Malcolm
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Re: Earth Termas - real objects?

Post by Malcolm » Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:57 pm

Everything that buddhas do is a lie, because everything we sentient beings perceive is deceptive, including buddhas.
Nosta wrote:
Sonam Wangchug wrote:Yes, Earth terma's do exist.. There are of course many stories surrounding their revelations. However the proof is in the pudding.

It's obvious in dealing with the genuine tertons, just how amazing and genuine they are, and also Not only on the level of Sa (earth) Terma objects
Such as Phurba's, and statues, and all .. However the Various Sadhana's which were also revealed in scroll form .. The realized beings these terma's have produced.

I can see how one could have a doubt, something common place in this age of skepticism, but keeping an open mind, (as you sound like you are trying to do) is the way to proceed..

Tashi delek
Since we are dealing with real buddhist masters - that fully follow the precept of not lie - I believe that they are not decepting people (with illusionist tricks and so on) when retrieving termas. Unless they have some kind of secret practice -and this is just my imagination wandering - where they should do tricks to make people follow them or follow Buddhism. There is also the possibility that they may want win the respect, fear and adoration of people by doing tricks (recovering termas).

I prefer to believe in the idea that they have the power to transcend reality and make wonders like this, but as someone raised in a world filled with scientific knowledge, sometimes i question myself and have some doubts. A little bit like the Pure Land teachings: sometimes I think that they are to much wonderful to be real!
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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