Drupchen/Drupchod

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:34 pm

Hi all, what's the difference between a drupchen and a drupchod?

udawa
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by udawa » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:44 pm

According to http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Drupch%C3%B6
A drupchö (Wyl. sgrub mchod) is an elaborate way of doing a particular Vajrayana practice over several days (three to eight days). Unlike a drupchen, which is also practised over several days, this is not a 24h practice; it is only done during the day.
D
Edwards: You are a philosopher. Dr Johnson: I have tried too in my time to be a philosopher; but, I don't know how, cheerfulness was always breaking in.

ngodrup
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by ngodrup » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:03 pm

In a Drupchen, there is mantra recitation occurring continuously, unbroken.
In a Drupchen, tsog is offered 2x a day. In a Drupchen, there are masked
cham or Lama dances as we call them representing the deities and their activity.
In a Drupchen, there are jinseks-- fire pujas associated with the activity
such as pacifying, enriching, magnetizing and destroying.

A Drupchen is usually closed, you cannot enter after the mandala has been
established or leave before it has been closed. (sometimes permission is given.)
There are few breaks the schedule is grueling.

Drupcho is considerably less extensive.

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:10 pm

ty

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conebeckham
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by conebeckham » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:44 pm

Generally speaking, Drupchos are Sarma ceremonies, (Nyingma have them too, though, but they are more often found in Sarma) and they usually are preceded by a period of "Nyenpa" or Accumulation practice, often individual and lasting for many days, four sessions a day. Drupchos are often 3 sessions, and go from morning until evening. They usually include Dak Kye (self-generation), Dun Kye (in front generation), Bum Kye (vase generation), dag Zhuk (self empowerment/entering the mandala) and tsok on a daily basis. Sometimes the various generation parts may occur more than once a day, as well. If these are done in a retreat setting, after a period of Nyentsam, then one would do a Jinsek, or Homa ritual, after the Drupcho as well. Sometimes Drupchos are done on their own, without extensive Nyentsam or Jinsek at the end, for various purposes--"Jangchoks (Rituals for the Dead), or various blessing ceremonies, etc.

Drupchens are more often found in Nyingma tradition, generally, though Sarma have them as well. As Ngodrup stated, they are the most elaborate rituals--round-the-clock recitations and sessions, sometimes with separate shrines for full-time mantra recitation and regular liturgical sessions. Many of the stages of liturgy/ritual--self-generation, front generation, tormas, sometimes tsoks, depending on the specific practice, may repeat several times, day and night. Also, in Drupchen the "approach" (Nyenpa), "Accomplishment" (Druppa), "Great Accomplishment" (Drupchen) all occur in the context of the group ritual--so there may be no "Nyentsam" period prior to the Drupchen itself. Mantras sometimes change, based on the stages of the ritual, as well. There are often Chams, or dances, and sometimes multiple Jinseks, as Ngodrup also noted.

In my experience, retreat parameters for both Drubchos and Drupchens vary depending on context; it has been my experience that certain Drupchos have more restrictive requirements, like silence, boundary, etc. than others, but this is all based on context as well.

If you want to read about the most elaborate Drupchen that I know of, there's a doctoral thesis about the Gongpa Dupa Do, the root of all Anu Yoga in the Nyingma, out there on the interwebz, which goes into great detail about the specifics of the practice--basically there are a bunch of separate Drupchens happening, and they all converge in the end, in the Ngondzok Gyalpo mandala. It's a pretty good read, and I imagine attendance at this ritual would be a huge blessing.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:12 pm

Wow, cone, ty. Apparently the Drikungs just had a Chakrasamvara "Drupchod" followed immediately by a "Drupchen", I thought they might be the same thing. Perhaps I can go one of these days, it sounds kind of intense, but I imagine an extraordinary experience.

EDIT BTW, Sutra which Gathers All Intentions, is that usually a single empowerment?

EDIT 2, Sorry, you said. If it is a root tantra for all of anuyoga is this a "ripening" initiation? I've never heard of this being given anywhere.

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conebeckham
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by conebeckham » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:19 pm

I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that there is an Empowerment of Ngondzok Gyalpo, the main "deity practice" of Anuyoga, though Anuyoga is more of an approach which can apply to any deity. I think there are some specific deity practices related to Anuyoga, but Anuyoga is said to contain all the lower levels of Tantra. There are some "terma" which are said to be Anuyoga specific, as well.

Maybe someone who has some experience can educate us all.....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

MiphamFan
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by MiphamFan » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:31 pm

Ngondzog Gyalpo is for initiation into Dzogchen Longde Vajra Bridge.

The Sutra that Gathers Intentions has nine levels, it is the root empowerment for anuyoga.

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conebeckham
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by conebeckham » Tue Sep 08, 2015 10:10 pm

MiphamFan wrote:Ngondzog Gyalpo is for initiation into Dzogchen Longde Vajra Bridge.

The Sutra that Gathers Intentions has nine levels, it is the root empowerment for anuyoga.
Yes, I was mistaken. I was thinking of TsokChen Dupa. It's the central "deity" though in fact there are hundreds of deities in the practice of Gongpa Dupa Do. Tsokchen Dupa is actually a specific form of Chemchok Heruka, IIRC.

http://vajrayana.faithweb.com/Anuyoga.pdf
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

Happy Thunderbolt
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by Happy Thunderbolt » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:12 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:44 pm


If you want to read about the most elaborate Drupchen that I know of, there's a doctoral thesis about the Gongpa Dupa Do, the root of all Anu Yoga in the Nyingma, out there on the interwebz, which goes into great detail about the specifics of the practice--basically there are a bunch of separate Drupchens happening, and they all converge in the end, in the Ngondzok Gyalpo mandala. It's a pretty good read, and I imagine attendance at this ritual would be a huge blessing.
I'd appreciate if you could give me a link to this thesis.

Thanks.

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conebeckham
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Re: Drupchen/Drupchod

Post by conebeckham » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:52 pm

Happy Thunderbolt wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:12 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:44 pm


If you want to read about the most elaborate Drupchen that I know of, there's a doctoral thesis about the Gongpa Dupa Do, the root of all Anu Yoga in the Nyingma, out there on the interwebz, which goes into great detail about the specifics of the practice--basically there are a bunch of separate Drupchens happening, and they all converge in the end, in the Ngondzok Gyalpo mandala. It's a pretty good read, and I imagine attendance at this ritual would be a huge blessing.
I'd appreciate if you could give me a link to this thesis.

Thanks.

Looks like the old link doesn't work any longer. Sorry....try a google search.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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