Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Guru?

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Punya
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Punya »

Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Guru (or master, rinpoche, whatever you call it)?
Since the answer to your question is no (well said Virgo), do you want us to suggest some options? If you are interested in Vajrayana another teacher who gives internet transmissions is Garchen Rinpoche, who I notice visited your country last year. Or you could ask more about your Namkhai Norbu experience in the DW Dzogchen forum or at http://www.vajracakra.com/index.php. His students always seem willing to help.

There are also a number of online study and practice programs you could consider including those offered by Mingyur Rinpoche, Phakchok Rinpoche and Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche.
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philji
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by philji »

I do sympathise with the OP, but as Cone Beckham points out there are online options available these day... CNN, Mingyur Rinpoche, Dharma Sun programs( Chokyi Nyima), Phakchok Rinpoche....and whilst setting out and receiving instructions in this way make aspirations that you will meet with a teacher who can guide you.
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Nosta
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Nosta »

Thank you very much for your help :), all of you :)

Since there are options online, that raises a question, a little offtopic: receiving transmission is not only a simple teaching, otherwise I could see any video on youtube from, lets say, Namkhai Norbu! But it seems that the transmission must be direct, in real time so to say. So, can I say that there is "mystical"/paranormal (I really dont know wich word to use) element on the transmissions? I mean, transmission is something more than just speaking words. Is that correct to say?

With the exception of my last question, I have some information now. I will check these online podcasts and see what can I do. Thank you very much once again.
Punya
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Punya »

It's worth reading this discussion about internet empowerments http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f= ... 6&start=40
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tingdzin
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by tingdzin »

Yes, Vajrayana (as opposed to Sutrayana) transmission is not just a matter of speaking words. Best not to try to describe it, though; you'll just get caught in words (and on an internet forum, endless debate).
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Just as an aside, a common mistake in this day and age is to confuse information with knowledge.

There are all kinds of mundane things you can't adequately learn from simply acquiring information on them, cooking, martial arts, etc. to truly learn these things people generally require some type of teacher...how much more for the most important thing one can learn - Dharma. So without even worrying about whether a thing is "mystical" or not, the advantages of having personal contact with people who can guide you is hard to dispute.

The map is not the territory, it's not just an issue of whether or not you can use the map, anyone can use the map. Assuming one can do the same thing without a teacher though, is like thinking the journey is the map, it's a confusion of categories, IMO.

That said, there are at least two teachers I know of (Garchen Rinpoche and ChNN) that give online transmission, and beyond that, there are all kinds of youtube videos seemingly made for an audience that doesn't necessarily have transmission in the form of unrestricted meditation instruction so...
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Lhasa
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Lhasa »

philji wrote:I do sympathise with the OP, but as Cone Beckham points out there are online options available these day... CNN, Mingyur Rinpoche, Dharma Sun programs( Chokyi Nyima), Phakchok Rinpoche....and whilst setting out and receiving instructions in this way make aspirations that you will meet with a teacher who can guide you.
It might be very helpful to make a list of Teachers who have these kinds of online programs. And can be vouched for as authentic. Is there a thread like that?
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Nosta
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Nosta »

It would be useful indeed. I suppose that, for a start, highly respected masters (already mentioned here in this thread) have valid programs and transmissions, like Namkhai Norbu, Tenzin Wangyal...
Natan
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Natan »

Nosta wrote:Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Guru (or master, rinpoche, whatever you call it)?

In every book I find* they always say -somewhere in the book- that you need to receive instructions in order to practice. Its like such books were made only for someone who already had a transmission (or empowerment...I dont know if there is any difference between such words).

But if I am reading a book and understand some ideas, if I understand how is the practice (and sometimes the books speak only about meditative practice) why cant I practice? I feel discouraged, because sometimes I find brilliant books, but I cant practie because they say "you need to receive the instructions"! Isnt enough to receive them by reading? I am reading them! If I understand the words, why not practice??

Sometimes it seems that such practices are running away with people and lead them to other practices (Pure Land, Theravada practices, other Mahayana practices, etc).

Whats your points on this?

*with the exception of "The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" from Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
If you have profound devotion you can call the lama from afar, and you can chant Guru Padmasambhava's mantra continuously, or pray fervently to Vamalamitra and the rest of the Dzogchen masters and you will both see these masters and eventually meet your lama.
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Natan
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Natan »

tyler2 wrote:did buddha have a teacher though, nope, dont even think there was books at the time
Buddha followed countless teachers in previous lives. He was an emanation. He always manifests his own enlightenment. Some of the Tibetan tulkus were also emanations. Namcho Mingyur Dorje, the first Dudjom, etc.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
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Paul
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Paul »

Nosta wrote:Since there are options online, that raises a question, a little offtopic: receiving transmission is not only a simple teaching, otherwise I could see any video on youtube from, lets say, Namkhai Norbu! But it seems that the transmission must be direct, in real time so to say. So, can I say that there is "mystical"/paranormal (I really dont know wich word to use) element on the transmissions? I mean, transmission is something more than just speaking words. Is that correct to say?
It requires the intention of the master and the student for transmission to take place between them. Obviously a book or video can't intend anything. It's not just a lecture.
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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

Nosta wrote:Thank you very much for your help :), all of you :)

Since there are options online, that raises a question, a little offtopic: receiving transmission is not only a simple teaching, otherwise I could see any video on youtube from, lets say, Namkhai Norbu! But it seems that the transmission must be direct, in real time so to say. So, can I say that there is "mystical"/paranormal (I really dont know wich word to use) element on the transmissions? I mean, transmission is something more than just speaking words. Is that correct to say?

With the exception of my last question, I have some information now. I will check these online podcasts and see what can I do. Thank you very much once again.
With all respect that Chögyal Namkhai Norbu and his approach deserve, I think you cannot really recieve a full Vajrayana-Transmission through the Internet. Exactly because of the very nature of an empowerment.

All the best
Karma Yeshe
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byamspa
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by byamspa »

Karma_Yeshe wrote:
Nosta wrote:Thank you very much for your help :), all of you :)

Since there are options online, that raises a question, a little offtopic: receiving transmission is not only a simple teaching, otherwise I could see any video on youtube from, lets say, Namkhai Norbu! But it seems that the transmission must be direct, in real time so to say. So, can I say that there is "mystical"/paranormal (I really dont know wich word to use) element on the transmissions? I mean, transmission is something more than just speaking words. Is that correct to say?

With the exception of my last question, I have some information now. I will check these online podcasts and see what can I do. Thank you very much once again.
With all respect that Chögyal Namkhai Norbu and his approach deserve, I think you cannot really recieve a full Vajrayana-Transmission through the Internet. Exactly because of the very nature of an empowerment.

All the best
Karma Yeshe
I respectfully disagree. HE Garchen Rinpoche said that "If you don't live nearby and cannot come, but with all your heart would like to, that is the right motivation for receiving the empowerment over the internet.
Whoever has faith and devotion will receive the empowerment regardless of where they are, because the dharmakaya pervades like space. Even if you come to the temple to receive an empowerment, if you have no devotion you still will not receive it."

Its really up to the aspirant and the aspiration generated. if you want it badly, then receiving it over ustream or skype can work. If your motivation is questionable, the results will be 2.
Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?
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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

byamspa wrote: I respectfully disagree. HE Garchen Rinpoche said that "If you don't live nearby and cannot come, but with all your heart would like to, that is the right motivation for receiving the empowerment over the internet.
Whoever has faith and devotion will receive the empowerment regardless of where they are, because the dharmakaya pervades like space. Even if you come to the temple to receive an empowerment, if you have no devotion you still will not receive it."

Its really up to the aspirant and the aspiration generated. if you want it badly, then receiving it over ustream or skype can work. If your motivation is questionable, the results will be 2.
Yes. That is why I wrote full Vajrayana Empowerment. This is not only about the Dharmakaya. There are substances involed and you should make a connection not only with your mind-aspect but also with energy and body (all of them being inseperable). Also you should recevieve the ritual implements and so on. How is that possible via Skype/internet?

All the best
Karma Yeshe
MiphamFan
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by MiphamFan »

You cannot receive a full wangchen online. And ChNN never claims to give these online.

What he gives are donwangs, dawangs and direct introduction to your own state.
Malcolm
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Malcolm »

Karma_Yeshe wrote:
Yes. That is why I wrote full Vajrayana Empowerment. This is not only about the Dharmakaya. There are substances involed and you should make a connection not only with your mind-aspect but also with energy and body (all of them being inseperable). Also you should recevieve the ritual implements and so on. How is that possible via Skype/internet?
As my guru, a terton and a great Dzogchen master, once told us, "Empowerments are the play of children.
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conebeckham
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by conebeckham »

Malcolm wrote:
Karma_Yeshe wrote:
Yes. That is why I wrote full Vajrayana Empowerment. This is not only about the Dharmakaya. There are substances involed and you should make a connection not only with your mind-aspect but also with energy and body (all of them being inseperable). Also you should recevieve the ritual implements and so on. How is that possible via Skype/internet?
As my guru, a terton and a great Dzogchen master, once told us, "Empowerments are the play of children.
Well, in Vajrayana we all start out as children, and play is a good thing. Necessary, even.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Malcolm
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Malcolm »

conebeckham wrote:
Well, in Vajrayana we all start out as children, and play is a good thing. Necessary, even.
He was saying actually the opposite...
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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

Malcolm wrote: As my guru, a terton and a great Dzogchen master, once told us, "Empowerments are the play of children.
I have no interest in arguing with Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or another accomplished Dzogchen Master. From the perspective of Ati-Yoga everything that is done in the other 8 yanas is more or less childish. But the OP asked about Tibetan Buddhism in general and also he asked in the general "Tibetan Buddhism" section and not in the "Dzogchen" subforum. That's why I think it a very valid answer to mention the general conditions for empowerments shared in all 4 schools of Tibetan Buddhism which usually and traditionally include the things I have mentioned in my previous post.

All the best
Karma Yeshe
philji
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Re: Can you practice Tibetan Buddhism without ever had a Gur

Post by philji »

Karma_Yeshe wrote:
Malcolm wrote: As my guru, a terton and a great Dzogchen master, once told us, "Empowerments are the play of children.
I have no interest in arguing with Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or another accomplished Dzogchen Master. From the perspective of Ati-Yoga everything that is done in the other 8 yanas is more or less childish. But the OP asked about Tibetan Buddhism in general and also he asked in the general "Tibetan Buddhism" section and not in the "Dzogchen" subforum. That's why I think it a very valid answer to mention the general conditions for empowerments shared in all 4 schools of Tibetan Buddhism which usually and traditionally include the things I have mentioned in my previous post.

All the best
Karma Yeshe
Good point.
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