Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

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thomaslaw
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by thomaslaw » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 am
thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am
Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
I think that is sometimes one aspect of it. I don't think that's really what it's about, though. Do you have samaya, by the way, Thomas?
Do you have samaya?

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:07 am

thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 am
thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am
Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
I think that is sometimes one aspect of it. I don't think that's really what it's about, though. Do you have samaya, by the way, Thomas?
Do you have samaya?
Yes.

amanitamusc
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by amanitamusc » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:14 am

thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am
Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
What is the source of this quote?

thomaslaw
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by thomaslaw » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:28 am

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:07 am
thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 am


I think that is sometimes one aspect of it. I don't think that's really what it's about, though. Do you have samaya, by the way, Thomas?
Do you have samaya?
Yes.
What it is?

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:51 pm

thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:28 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:07 am
thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am


Do you have samaya?
Yes.
What it is?
I don't have permission from my teacher to give people teachings on samaya. Sorry. You might get an idea if you read through the previous pages in this topic.

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Malcolm
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Malcolm » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:00 pm

thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:28 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:07 am
thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am


Do you have samaya?
Yes.
What it is?
It's like Fight Club, you do not talk about it.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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conebeckham
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by conebeckham » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:18 pm

thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am
Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
No, it's not. Some folks think it is, though--including some Vajrayana practitioners.

Frankly, the only way to understand samaya is to receive empowerment and practice assiduously. Just as an example, in Sarma practices one recites the various aspects and vows of Samaya during "self-empowerment" rituals, and these are the same as those given during the empowerment. One of the common samayas is to not discuss the samaya or other aspects of practice with those who have not received empowerment, so Malcolm's quip about "Fight Club" is right on the money! Funny, too. :smile:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

thomaslaw
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by thomaslaw » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:40 am

:jumping:
conebeckham wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:18 pm
thomaslaw wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am
Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
No, it's not. Some folks think it is, though--including some Vajrayana practitioners.

Frankly, the only way to understand samaya is to receive empowerment and practice assiduously. Just as an example, in Sarma practices one recites the various aspects and vows of Samaya during "self-empowerment" rituals, and these are the same as those given during the empowerment. One of the common samayas is to not discuss the samaya or other aspects of practice with those who have not received empowerment, so Malcolm's quip about "Fight Club" is right on the money! Funny, too. :smile:
Yes, if discussing the samaya with those who have not received it, it becomes no more 'empowerment'!

climb-up
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by climb-up » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:03 am

Sorry for this thread necromancy (What is the Tibetan for necromancy? Is there a word for necromancy specifically, or is this just a siddhi?), but I wanted to genuinely thank you all who participated in this discussion.

I thought I should finally read through the whole thing and it was very interesting and informative. I especially love the extensive quotes, some powerful stuff there and, of course, I love the quote by ChNN, which was the first thing I thought of when I thought of samaya.
Based on the recommendations I have ordered, Kongtrul's "Buddhist ethics" and look forward to reading it.

Varis
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Varis » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:38 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:51 pm
With Yoga tantra.
A question, the samaya of YT are far less and seem a lot more simpler and straightforward than those in HYT. Is it really as "simple" and straightforward as not abandoning the dharma and bodhicitta, not withholding teachings, and not causing harm? Or are there stipulations and elaborations on what qualifies as maintaining these like with the samaya of HYT?

If there are, any texts you might recommend reading in the Tibetan and Japanese traditions that speak on this?

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Tlalok
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Tlalok » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm

Does samaya extend to non-humans? I have a very bonded Tibetan Spaniel / Pomeranian mix that gets very indignant if she is not close to me when I'm at home, is it a no-no to perform sadhanas etc. with her about?

Ideally she would receive the same empowerments I have but I don't think her faculties are particularly developed (she is scared of bananas).

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heart
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by heart » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:55 pm

Tlalok wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm
Does samaya extend to non-humans? I have a very bonded Tibetan Spaniel / Pomeranian mix that gets very indignant if she is not close to me when I'm at home, is it a no-no to perform sadhanas etc. with her about?

Ideally she would receive the same empowerments I have but I don't think her faculties are particularly developed (she is scared of bananas).
:smile: my Tibetan Spaniel always lie, belly up, beside me during sadhana practice.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Simon E.
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Simon E. » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:34 pm

Tlalok wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm
Does samaya extend to non-humans? I have a very bonded Tibetan Spaniel / Pomeranian mix that gets very indignant if she is not close to me when I'm at home, is it a no-no to perform sadhanas etc. with her about?

Ideally she would receive the same empowerments I have but I don't think her faculties are particularly developed (she is scared of bananas).
Some of those bananas can be very unpredictable....little yellow show-offs.
Gone fishin' :smile:

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heart
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by heart » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:00 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:34 pm
Tlalok wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm
Does samaya extend to non-humans? I have a very bonded Tibetan Spaniel / Pomeranian mix that gets very indignant if she is not close to me when I'm at home, is it a no-no to perform sadhanas etc. with her about?

Ideally she would receive the same empowerments I have but I don't think her faculties are particularly developed (she is scared of bananas).
Some of those bananas can be very unpredictable....little yellow show-offs.
:smile: cats are afraid of cucumbers (check it out on youtube).

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Simon E.
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Simon E. » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:01 pm

I shall test it out next time I am at my granddaughters house Magnus. ( she has a cat called, believe it or not ,Duck...don't ask me why) :smile:
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Mantrik
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Mantrik » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:44 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:01 pm
I shall test it out next time I am at my granddaughters house Magnus. ( she has a cat called, believe it or not ,Duck...don't ask me why) :smile:
You can't duck samaya, I'm afraid. :)
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Vasana
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Vasana » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:53 pm

It would be impossible for an ordinary dog to follow a samaya it doesn't understand so no, Your dog doesn't have a samaya... (unless of course a special sambhogakaya fluent in dog granted it a special empowerment one day!)
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Simon E.
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Simon E. » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:34 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:44 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:01 pm
I shall test it out next time I am at my granddaughters house Magnus. ( she has a cat called, believe it or not ,Duck...don't ask me why) :smile:
You can't duck samaya, I'm afraid. :)
I think I'm going quackers.. 8-)
Gone fishin' :smile:

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Mantrik
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Mantrik » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:44 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:34 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:44 pm
Simon E. wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:01 pm
I shall test it out next time I am at my granddaughters house Magnus. ( she has a cat called, believe it or not ,Duck...don't ask me why) :smile:
You can't duck samaya, I'm afraid. :)
I think I'm going quackers.. 8-)
I'll send you the bill for that. :)

Isn't it funny how threads where there is nothing to say or nothing which can be said, last longest!
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Kunga Lhadzom
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Kunga Lhadzom » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:45 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:34 pm
think I'm going quackers..
Maybe you'really a quack ?

:jumping:
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