Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

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thomaslaw
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by thomaslaw »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 am
thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
I think that is sometimes one aspect of it. I don't think that's really what it's about, though. Do you have samaya, by the way, Thomas?
Do you have samaya?
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 am
thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
I think that is sometimes one aspect of it. I don't think that's really what it's about, though. Do you have samaya, by the way, Thomas?
Do you have samaya?
Yes.
amanitamusc
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by amanitamusc »

thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
What is the source of this quote?
thomaslaw
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by thomaslaw »

Thomas Amundsen wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:07 am
thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:27 am

I think that is sometimes one aspect of it. I don't think that's really what it's about, though. Do you have samaya, by the way, Thomas?
Do you have samaya?
Yes.
What it is?
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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:28 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:07 am
thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am

Do you have samaya?
Yes.
What it is?
I don't have permission from my teacher to give people teachings on samaya. Sorry. You might get an idea if you read through the previous pages in this topic.
Malcolm
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Malcolm »

thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:28 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:07 am
thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 am

Do you have samaya?
Yes.
What it is?
It's like Fight Club, you do not talk about it.
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conebeckham
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by conebeckham »

thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
No, it's not. Some folks think it is, though--including some Vajrayana practitioners.

Frankly, the only way to understand samaya is to receive empowerment and practice assiduously. Just as an example, in Sarma practices one recites the various aspects and vows of Samaya during "self-empowerment" rituals, and these are the same as those given during the empowerment. One of the common samayas is to not discuss the samaya or other aspects of practice with those who have not received empowerment, so Malcolm's quip about "Fight Club" is right on the money! Funny, too. :smile:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
thomaslaw
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by thomaslaw »

:jumping:
conebeckham wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:18 pm
thomaslaw wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:33 am Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.

Thomas
No, it's not. Some folks think it is, though--including some Vajrayana practitioners.

Frankly, the only way to understand samaya is to receive empowerment and practice assiduously. Just as an example, in Sarma practices one recites the various aspects and vows of Samaya during "self-empowerment" rituals, and these are the same as those given during the empowerment. One of the common samayas is to not discuss the samaya or other aspects of practice with those who have not received empowerment, so Malcolm's quip about "Fight Club" is right on the money! Funny, too. :smile:
Yes, if discussing the samaya with those who have not received it, it becomes no more 'empowerment'!
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climb-up
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by climb-up »

Sorry for this thread necromancy (What is the Tibetan for necromancy? Is there a word for necromancy specifically, or is this just a siddhi?), but I wanted to genuinely thank you all who participated in this discussion.

I thought I should finally read through the whole thing and it was very interesting and informative. I especially love the extensive quotes, some powerful stuff there and, of course, I love the quote by ChNN, which was the first thing I thought of when I thought of samaya.
Based on the recommendations I have ordered, Kongtrul's "Buddhist ethics" and look forward to reading it.
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Varis
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Varis »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:51 pm With Yoga tantra.
A question, the samaya of YT are far less and seem a lot more simpler and straightforward than those in HYT. Is it really as "simple" and straightforward as not abandoning the dharma and bodhicitta, not withholding teachings, and not causing harm? Or are there stipulations and elaborations on what qualifies as maintaining these like with the samaya of HYT?

If there are, any texts you might recommend reading in the Tibetan and Japanese traditions that speak on this?
"I have never encountered a person who committed bad deeds." ― Ven. Jìngkōng
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Tlalok
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Tlalok »

Does samaya extend to non-humans? I have a very bonded Tibetan Spaniel / Pomeranian mix that gets very indignant if she is not close to me when I'm at home, is it a no-no to perform sadhanas etc. with her about?

Ideally she would receive the same empowerments I have but I don't think her faculties are particularly developed (she is scared of bananas).
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heart
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by heart »

Tlalok wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm Does samaya extend to non-humans? I have a very bonded Tibetan Spaniel / Pomeranian mix that gets very indignant if she is not close to me when I'm at home, is it a no-no to perform sadhanas etc. with her about?

Ideally she would receive the same empowerments I have but I don't think her faculties are particularly developed (she is scared of bananas).
:smile: my Tibetan Spaniel always lie, belly up, beside me during sadhana practice.

/magnus
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Simon E.
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Simon E. »

Tlalok wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm Does samaya extend to non-humans? I have a very bonded Tibetan Spaniel / Pomeranian mix that gets very indignant if she is not close to me when I'm at home, is it a no-no to perform sadhanas etc. with her about?

Ideally she would receive the same empowerments I have but I don't think her faculties are particularly developed (she is scared of bananas).
Some of those bananas can be very unpredictable....little yellow show-offs.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

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heart
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by heart »

Simon E. wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:34 pm
Tlalok wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:05 pm Does samaya extend to non-humans? I have a very bonded Tibetan Spaniel / Pomeranian mix that gets very indignant if she is not close to me when I'm at home, is it a no-no to perform sadhanas etc. with her about?

Ideally she would receive the same empowerments I have but I don't think her faculties are particularly developed (she is scared of bananas).
Some of those bananas can be very unpredictable....little yellow show-offs.
:smile: cats are afraid of cucumbers (check it out on youtube).

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Simon E.
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Simon E. »

I shall test it out next time I am at my granddaughters house Magnus. ( she has a cat called, believe it or not ,Duck...don't ask me why) :smile:
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Mantrik
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Mantrik »

Simon E. wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:01 pm I shall test it out next time I am at my granddaughters house Magnus. ( she has a cat called, believe it or not ,Duck...don't ask me why) :smile:
You can't duck samaya, I'm afraid. :)
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Vasana »

It would be impossible for an ordinary dog to follow a samaya it doesn't understand so no, Your dog doesn't have a samaya... (unless of course a special sambhogakaya fluent in dog granted it a special empowerment one day!)
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'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Simon E.
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Simon E. »

Mantrik wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:44 pm
Simon E. wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:01 pm I shall test it out next time I am at my granddaughters house Magnus. ( she has a cat called, believe it or not ,Duck...don't ask me why) :smile:
You can't duck samaya, I'm afraid. :)
I think I'm going quackers.. 8-)
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Mantrik
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by Mantrik »

Simon E. wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:34 pm
Mantrik wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:44 pm
Simon E. wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:01 pm I shall test it out next time I am at my granddaughters house Magnus. ( she has a cat called, believe it or not ,Duck...don't ask me why) :smile:
You can't duck samaya, I'm afraid. :)
I think I'm going quackers.. 8-)
I'll send you the bill for that. :)

Isn't it funny how threads where there is nothing to say or nothing which can be said, last longest!
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

Simon E. wrote: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:34 pm think I'm going quackers..
Maybe you'really a quack ?

:jumping:
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