Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Well, the title of this thread Is still true.
There are so many opinions here. Even among the lamas. The topic is not any clearer.
There are so many opinions here. Even among the lamas. The topic is not any clearer.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Don’t expect clarity from dharmawheel. Friendship, learning, inspiration maybe but not clarity.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Gyatrul Rinpche made a somewhat cryptic comment about samaya once that I heard. He said "You don't even know what samaya is, let alone how to practice it." I thought to myself, "Ain't that the truth?"
All the rules surrounding samaya are not samaya. Rules. That shalt not. What about us rule-o-phobes? Can we not practice dharma? Certainly, the whole concept of samaya did not function in Shakyamuni's time. So when exactly did it enter the Buddhist pantheon? Does anyone know? Is it just a Tibetan thing? No other branches of dharma practice seem to have it. Wondering about the whole thing.
All the rules surrounding samaya are not samaya. Rules. That shalt not. What about us rule-o-phobes? Can we not practice dharma? Certainly, the whole concept of samaya did not function in Shakyamuni's time. So when exactly did it enter the Buddhist pantheon? Does anyone know? Is it just a Tibetan thing? No other branches of dharma practice seem to have it. Wondering about the whole thing.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
With Yoga tantra.MalaBeads wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:16 pm Gyatrul Rinpche made a somewhat cryptic comment about samaya once that I heard. He said "You don't even know what samaya is, let alone how to practice it." I thought to myself, "Ain't that the truth?"
All the rules surrounding samaya are not samaya. Rules. That shalt not. What about us rule-o-phobes? Can we not practice dharma? Certainly, the whole concept of samaya did not function in Shakyamuni's time. So when exactly did it enter the Buddhist pantheon? Does anyone know? Is it just a Tibetan thing? No other branches of dharma practice seem to have it. Wondering about the whole thing.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it
Very interesting! Are these features (from secret to suchness) arranged some how like vajrayana style lokottara-paticcasamutpada in Upanisa Sutta?
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Most of what people consider samaya only comes into play when you take yoga and highest yoga tantra initiations. As mentioned previously in this thread, there is no such thing as samaya outside the context of initiations.
However, keeping any, a few, or all of the five lay precepts, and/or the commitments of refuge are a good place to start.
Samaya is maintained as a living tradition in the tantric lineages of Tendai and Shingon. More generally, the term has diffused into East Asian Buddhist vocabulary.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
I would politely disagree. Did you read the references linked in the first page? What the commitments *are* is not at all uncertain. The confusion arises from the various ways in which people paraphrase, interpret or summarize the intent of the commitments. Life is considerably simpler if one discards all this elaboration and just observes them.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Are you suggesting to apply Hinayana methods ("just observe") to what is essentially a tantric enterprise? I thought the admonition was to "discard nothing".PeterC wrote: Life is considerably simpler if one discards all this elaboration and just observes them.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
I was using "observe" in the sense of "follow, comply with" - e.g. "observe the Sabbath" as opposed to "observe one's navel".MalaBeads wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:08 amAre you suggesting to apply Hinayana methods ("just observe") to what is essentially a tantric enterprise? I thought the admonition was to "discard nothing".PeterC wrote: Life is considerably simpler if one discards all this elaboration and just observes them.
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
I shared it in a different topic, I guess I'll post it here too:
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it
It matches my recollection.Konchog1 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:15 amThat doesn't match with my recollection...heart wrote:You promise the guru, not the deity.Konchog1 wrote:Samaya or pledges are things that you promise the deity to do during empowerment. Samvara or vows are things that you promise not to do. One of the common samaya is to keep your Samvara.
/magnus
I have many samayas, none are to any deities.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
That's because there isnt any single answer.
Samaya is between the teacher and their student.
It's not a universal rule book.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Thinking that the deity and the guru are different is a misunderstanding of empowerment, and can be argued to be a cause for not even receiving samaya.
Just throwing that out there.....
Just throwing that out there.....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
I think this is true. It seems to be the relationship between the student and teacher. I like what Magnus said too. You promise the teacher, not the diety.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Deity's nature, your teacher's nature and yours are all identical.
If you know your nature and rest in it the samaya is being kept.
In other words just resting in your nature is keeping all the samayas you ever had.
If you know your nature and rest in it the samaya is being kept.
In other words just resting in your nature is keeping all the samayas you ever had.
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Absolutely.conebeckham wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:33 pm Thinking that the deity and the guru are different is a misunderstanding of empowerment, and can be argued to be a cause for not even receiving samaya.
Just throwing that out there.....
I think this is probably the key to understanding a lot of the misconceptions about empowerment, samaya, and the purpose of deity yoga practices.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
You beat me to it.conebeckham wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:33 pm Thinking that the deity and the guru are different is a misunderstanding of empowerment, and can be argued to be a cause for not even receiving samaya.
Just throwing that out there.....
Anyone for reviving the guru yoga threads with this as an accepted and agreed on understanding?
Just kidding. That's a lost cause.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
This applies only to those who already have unwavering stability in uncontrived equipoise. As soon as you're in post-equipoise or engaging in day to day activities, knowing which actions of body speeh and mind are conducive to your practice and which harm it still very much applies.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Re: Everybody speaks about samaya, but nobody knows what it is.
Samaya is a practice of bhakti 'devotional faith'.
Thomas
Thomas
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