Realizing four thoughts

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pael
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Realizing four thoughts

Post by pael »

What if, only thing you realize in this life is precious human birth and then die, does it help? If in next life you are not human? Which of four thoughts is the most important, if you must choose?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
muni
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by muni »

:namaste: Pael,

Just the thought of precious human life is great of course but I don't know what is the power of this thought only. Of course we humans are having the nature of never being satisfied and therefore we seek further and by this we have the desire to look beyond our apprehensions of what we call life and its' suffering. And so we have the capacity to discover how to solve this, to be free.
But thinking on precious human life can also go in other direction; the one of arrogance, self-importance. Then we are far away from Bodhichitta, far away from home.

*All beings are equal to space*

The other three thoughts are valuable and they all can remain together; impermanence of all things ( us included), in order to decrease clinging to these, which is leading to suffering. And then the selfish actions leading to suffering, the wish to end painful circle.
Thinking about our precious human life, and what it can achieve.

Thinking about impermanence, and the inevitability of death.

Thinking about karma, how our actions affect our future.

Thinking about the uncertainty, the problems, the suffering, and the happiness that never lasts, throughout uncontrollably recurring rebirths, samsara.
http://www.khandro.net/practice_4thoughts.htm
Conversely, viewing the self as a mere convention or as a designated label for our dynamic stream of experience - consciousness in relation to the body and the world - is in harmony with the interdependent and impermanent nature of reality; and leads to a state of well-being grounded in wisdom, altruism, compassion, and inner freedom.
https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/blog/ ... he-self--2

Simplicity reveals the nature of the mind behind the veil of restless thoughts.
https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/blog/ ... plicity--2
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heart
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by heart »

pael wrote:What if, only thing you realize in this life is precious human birth and then die, does it help? If in next life you are not human? Which of four thoughts is the most important, if you must choose?
You don't really need to choose since you are alive and capable to contemplate these four thoughts all day long. However, impermanence is the most important thought, you should spend most of your time remembering how impermanent everything is.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Paul
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by Paul »

heart wrote:However, impermanence is the most important thought, you should spend most of your time remembering how impermanent everything is.
I vote for impermanence too. It will help every practice.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
pael
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by pael »

So, I should think 'I will die' regularly?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
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Paul
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by Paul »

pael wrote:So, I should think 'I will die' regularly?
There's loads of things. I personally like to look back and see that there have been situations that seemed so solid and troublesome but have now disappeared into the past. Or that I used to be a little kid, but am now a fully grown man who's gradually ageing. Or that the day's slowly slipping by and won't ever return. Or that I used to have something that I loved to own but now it's gone. Or people I once knew that I don't see any more.

I think you can see the point. And how much scope there is for contemplation, so it can be very creative. It stops everything seeming so solid and such a real problem - things settle into their proper perspective.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal
the modern mind has become so limited and single-visioned that it has lost touch with normal perception - John Michell
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Vasana
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by Vasana »

pael wrote:So, I should think 'I will die' regularly?
It's not just the thought of the body's impermanence. Sure this is useful, every second your body is changing. You're not the same person you was a few seconds ago let alone 10 years ago...All compounded things and collections are impermanent.

Whatever is born is impermanent and is bound to die.
Whatever is stored up is impermanent and is bound to run out.
Whatever comes together is impermanent and is bound to come apart.
Whatever is built is impermanent and is bound to collapse.
Whatever rises up is impermanent and is bound to fall down.
So also, friendship and enmity, fortune and sorrow, good and evil, all the thoughts that run through your mind – everything is always changing.
~ Patrul Rinpoche

We become attached to objects,people,places, experiences,thoughts, feelings knowing deep inside that they too will one day, or at one moment, cease to exist in the exact way we formed a pleasant or unpleasant connection with them.

We become attached to our ideas,emotions,identifications even though upon examination, nothing stays the same because all conventional dharmas are governed by conditional factors. When these conditions change, the phneomena or noumena change with them because they were never truly irreducible entities in the first place.

Becoming familiar with impermanence in ourselves can also help us develop patience for the outside world and other people we ecounter, when they act in ways contrary to their own and others highest good. This aspect also can remind us that when it comes to our own practice and having our shit together in general, sometimes there are good days,sometimes there are bad days.

I'm not really keen on Sam Harris's work, but i thought this quote of his was quite potent.

“Consider it: every person you have ever met, every person will suffer the loss of his friends and family. All are going to lose everything they love in this world. Why would one want to be anything but kind to them in the meantime?”
ཨོཾ ་ མ ་ ཎི ་ པ ་ དྨེ ་ ཧཱུྃ ། འ ་ ཨ ་ ཧ ་ ཤ ་ ས ་ མ །
Om Mani Peme Hum ། 'A Ah Ha Sha Sa Ma
'When alone, watch your mind,When with others, watch your speech' - Old Kadampa saying
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Boomerang
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by Boomerang »

Recite the Sutra on Impermanence every day. It's not very long.

http://read.84000.co/browser/released/U ... 72-009.pdf
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heart
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by heart »

pael wrote:So, I should think 'I will die' regularly?
:smile: every single being in the world will die, and no one knows when that will happen. Not only that every house that is built will be pulled down and so on, I think you can figure it out the rest yourself.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
pael
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by pael »

Buddha Pronounces the Mahāyāna Sūtra of the Dhāraṇī of Infinite-Life Resolute Radiance King Tathāgata:''If those who expect to live a short life earnestly copy and uphold this sūtra, read and recite it, and make offerings and obeisance, they will have their lifespans lengthened to one hundred years.''
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra04.html
It is said in 9-round-death-meditation lifespan can't be increased and moment of death is uncertain. This sutra passage says otherwise. So, according to Buddha, does lifespan have upper limit for each and everyone?
30 years for A, 100 years for B and so on. Can it increase if A follows it?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
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BrianG
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by BrianG »

pael wrote:What if, only thing you realize in this life is precious human birth and then die, does it help? If in next life you are not human? Which of four thoughts is the most important, if you must choose?
Impermanence, because it is the most meritorious of the four thoughts.
Telepaths - I like to kill them
pael
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by pael »

Is Death anxiety realization of certainty of death?
I mean
feeling of dread, apprehension or solicitude (anxiety) when one thinks of the process of dying,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anx ... sychology)
Is this goal? Who should do corpse meditation?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering
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heart
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by heart »

pael wrote:Is Death anxiety realization of certainty of death?
I mean
feeling of dread, apprehension or solicitude (anxiety) when one thinks of the process of dying,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anx ... sychology)
Is this goal? Who should do corpse meditation?
Not at all, try this: http://www.khandrorinpoche.org/teaching ... 008-08-09/

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Yeti
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by Yeti »

pael wrote:Is Death anxiety realization of certainty of death?
I mean
feeling of dread, apprehension or solicitude (anxiety) when one thinks of the process of dying,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anx ... sychology)
Is this goal? Who should do corpse meditation?
IMHO, this is why Perfect Human Rebirth comes first, it gives the context to use everything else and use it fruitfully.

These four thoughts pervade all our training, as the samsaric mind is ignorantly distracted by ignoring the phenomena related with these four. This is how the awakened ones perceive samsara. So we train ourselves to overcome this inherit ignorance. Without this, our awareness is very limited. It's a constant process.
"People are fond of saying all sorts of things about others behind their backs, mentioning their names again and again. Instead of slandering others in this way, “slander” the yidam: utter his name repeatedly by reciting his mantra all the time." - Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche - Zurchungpa’s Testament - Shambhala Publications
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Impermanence and death meditations are linked. The death meditation has elements of certainty of the event, and uncertainty of the time. So therefore there is no guarantee that you will see the sunrise tomorrow.

Nothing that is currently demanding your attention will be of any importance two hours after you are dead. Death trivializes all our normal concerns and activities. However you are quite still alive. So what's the point? In the traditional perspective of karma and reincarnation your practice of Dharma is NOT trivialized by death. Therefore that which is really important about life is brought vividly to your attention.

My current understanding of what is important about this life in the face of impermanence and death is:
Your karma/actions, which dictate the circumstances of your next life, and
The development of you heart and mind. Your personality gets reformulated into something else (i.e. no-self), so your ego-centric preoccupations in this life will mean nothing. However the development of your heart and mind will be cumulative over several incarnations. There is no wasted Dharma practice from that perspective, no matter how soon you die.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Realizing four thoughts

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

It should be noted that the 4 thoughts have layers of subtlety to them. You are supposed to investigate them. Think of it like how teenagers in America listen to the lyrics of rock'n'roll songs--except don't try to read them backwards. That process of discovery makes the understanding your own. If it is just laid out for you, like I did in my post just above, then it is dead. The inquiry and discovery are needed to see the implied meanings. The reason I laid it out in my post above is that the direction of that kind of understanding is so heavily discounted in the modern world our minds just don't go there at all.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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