I wasn't "Samaya shamIng" anyone, just addressing it as an integral aspect of Vajrayana and HYT practice. If one doesn'tMalcolm wrote:You are a Dzogchen practitioner. You don't follow the Hinayanistic interpretation of samaya found in Sarma, do you? If so, why relate to it from their point of view and try to condition someone else?Adamantine wrote:This was a dialogue with a Gelug HYT practitioner, not an Ati yogi.Malcolm wrote:
In any case, in Dzogchen, one just unifies all samaya in guru yoga and that is sufficient.
From my perspective he has not broken any samaya since he has maintained his commitment to liberation, which is the essential "samaya" in which all other relative samayas are contained.
Samaya shaming practitioners for any reason is stupid.
keep their Samaya purely in Vajrayana, their understanding and realization also will suffer. They implied that they'd practiced HYT for 20 years and understood it well yet didn't consider it to be meditation. So considering that I've been aware of people who have practiced for that length of time or longer and not understood crucial things-- (perhaps even myself!) and considering how often Samaya is misunderstood, glossed over,
or plainly ignored by Western converts, I brought that up as
a potential thing to address. However, I was not accusing the OP of breaking Samaya, as I said already it's quite possible they could be keeping their Samaya purely and still practicing Zen as their primary practice. But it's not something to ignore either when we are discussing understandings of HYT practice and what will help or hinder one's ability to bear fruit from it.