Lama's that teach 100% rentention

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frankc
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Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by frankc » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:12 am

Can someone pass me the name's of some conservative Lama's that are 100% against any ejaculation no matter what part of the path the student is on and flamboyantly espouse the dangers of it. And if anyone here doesn't like this type of teaching, doesn't think it's legit, wants to tell me their opinion about it, doesn't agree with it, etc, thanks, but please don't tell me. :namaste:

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kirtu
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by kirtu » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:18 am

frankc wrote:Can someone pass me the name's of some conservative Lama's that are 100% against any ejaculation no matter what part of the path the student is on and flamboyantly espouse the dangers of it. And if anyone here doesn't like this type of teaching, doesn't think it's legit, wants to tell me their opinion about it, doesn't agree with it, etc, thanks, but please don't tell me. :namaste:
This is not typically a Buddhist concern for laypeople. It is a concern for Taoism though but was mostly glossed when I was studying Taoism.

Now this is a concern for monastics (except for many Zen monastics). But not for laypeople.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

frankc
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by frankc » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:31 am

kirtu wrote:
frankc wrote:Can someone pass me the name's of some conservative Lama's that are 100% against any ejaculation no matter what part of the path the student is on and flamboyantly espouse the dangers of it. And if anyone here doesn't like this type of teaching, doesn't think it's legit, wants to tell me their opinion about it, doesn't agree with it, etc, thanks, but please don't tell me. :namaste:
This is not typically a Buddhist concern for laypeople. It is a concern for Taoism though but was mostly glossed when I was studying Taoism.

Now this is a concern for monastics (except for many Zen monastics). But not for laypeople.

Kirt
Dude....

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skittles
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by skittles » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:02 am

For any part of the "path"?
I've never heard a lama say something like that for any part of the path. It's not uncommon for HYT.

I have heard of 100% retention, except in the case of penis-vagina sex. But that was such an obscure tangent and not an essential point.

From a physiological point of view of Taoism, what they are actually doing is retrograde ejaculation. They urinate out the semen later. Semen is a mixture of things that is mixed before you ejactulate. The body doesn't have a recovery plan for semen, it just enters the bladder if you block it.
"My main teacher Serkong Rinpoche, who was one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, explained that having a protector is like having a very strong and vicious dog. If you are a strong person, you could go sit and guard your own gate every night to make sure that thieves don’t attack, but usually people wouldn’t do that. It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s just: why bother? You could post a dog there instead." - Alex Berzin http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... rs_ab.html

frankc
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by frankc » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:12 am

frankc wrote:Can someone pass me the name's of some conservative Lama's that are 100% against any ejaculation no matter what part of the path the student is on and flamboyantly espouse the dangers of it. And if anyone here doesn't like this type of teaching, doesn't think it's legit, wants to tell me their opinion about it, doesn't agree with it, etc, thanks, but please don't tell me. :namaste:


:namaste:

frankc
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by frankc » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:34 pm

Quote from off-topic response removed.

A quote from Dronma on an old Dharmawheel thread

"My teacher suggests to male practitioners who aspire to practice liberation through sensation that they should never loose their pure essence (sperm).
And as far as I know, he is not the only teacher who is giving this advice.
However, who is capable to follow his advice and who is not, is a totally different story... ;)"

A reminder, I'm asking for name's of teacher's that are 100% pro retention. I'm not asking for opinions, people to teach me, tell me their thoughts, how they feel, what they think is bogus, what they think the Buddha taught, etc. Although, if you've already done this (with the intention of helping me) then nonetheless, thank you. :namaste:

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Losal Samten
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by Losal Samten » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:40 pm

How old are you frankc? I'm not sure 100% is possible for most males due to wet dreams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_emission#In_men

Maybe someone with extensive celibate experience could chime in on this aspect.
Last edited by Losal Samten on Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:41 pm

frankc wrote:
kirtu wrote:
frankc wrote:Can someone pass me the name's of some conservative Lama's that are 100% against any ejaculation no matter what part of the path the student is on and flamboyantly espouse the dangers of it. And if anyone here doesn't like this type of teaching, doesn't think it's legit, wants to tell me their opinion about it, doesn't agree with it, etc, thanks, but please don't tell me. :namaste:
This is not typically a Buddhist concern for laypeople. It is a concern for Taoism though but was mostly glossed when I was studying Taoism.

Now this is a concern for monastics (except for many Zen monastics). But not for laypeople.

Kirt
Dude....
Hi folks,

Let's please remember to keep the conversation on-topic. :namaste:

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skittles
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by skittles » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:32 pm

Mother's Lap wrote:How old are you frankc? I'm not sure 100% is possible for most males due to wet dreams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_emission#In_men

Maybe someone with extensive celibate experience could chime in on this aspect.
In practice, semen ends up coming out on its own without arousal.
I wouldn't call my experience extensive. A sudden celibacy after being sexually active can cause semen to leak out of the penis or come out in the urine, that was my experience in youth. Later it ends up as froth in urine. I knew one man that developed a testicular infection because of retention, the doctor prescribed antibiotics and ejaculation.

I'm not under the impression that you get a free pass just because you're asleep if you're training in pure views.

Frankc, I already explained that I have never heard of a lama teaching that. If you're trying to keep a pure view of your teacher, you should post this in the tantric section of the forum. If you don't agree with how I've decided to respond, please don't tell me or anyone else. If you choose to ignore my request for your silence, then we're equal and you have no right to complain.
"My main teacher Serkong Rinpoche, who was one of the teachers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, explained that having a protector is like having a very strong and vicious dog. If you are a strong person, you could go sit and guard your own gate every night to make sure that thieves don’t attack, but usually people wouldn’t do that. It’s not that we don’t have the ability, it’s just: why bother? You could post a dog there instead." - Alex Berzin http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... rs_ab.html

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Matt J
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by Matt J » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:43 am

Oddly, HHDL talked about this with Alexander Berzin. I came across it while looking for something else.

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... on_04.html
"The essence of meditation practice is to let go of all your expectations about meditation. All the qualities of your natural mind -- peace, openness, relaxation, and clarity -- are present in your mind just as it is. You don't have to do anything different. You don't have to shift or change your awareness. All you have to do while observing your mind is to recognize the qualities it already has."
--- Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche

frankc
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by frankc » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:45 pm

Matt J wrote:Oddly, HHDL talked about this with Alexander Berzin. I came across it while looking for something else.

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... on_04.html

Thanks. There might be an old thread on dharmawheel where someone brought up a specific teacher that teaches this way. I've looked for the post in various old threads but still haven't found it. Maybe it was Lug-Pa that posted it.


frankc
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by frankc » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:26 pm

Thanks for the links. I checked and didn't see the Lama there. The Lama that was mentioned in the thread I read may have been saying it damages the winds and channels or something, and I recall Malcom replied to it and said something like you only have to follow that teaching if you're studying directly with that Lama. (i'm not quoting Malcom because I agree with him. No offense to Malcom). I actually went through a huge celibacy thread looking for it and still didn't find it. seems lost for now. Thanks again for the links. :namaste:

Edit: Muahahaha, I found it, bloody brilliant.

edit: If anyone here wants any resources from a Lama teaching the negative effects of losing one's seed (for everyone, not just people at a certain stage, practicing a certain practice, etc) send me a private message. If I post anything here people might want to argue about it.
Last edited by frankc on Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kirtu
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by kirtu » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:48 pm

frankc wrote:
Matt J wrote:Oddly, HHDL talked about this with Alexander Berzin. I came across it while looking for something else.
But that is specific to Kalachakra practitioners and would be considered an advanced practice.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by Lhug-Pa » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:42 am

I first came in to this forum all over-the-top on some new-age-wannabe-Buddhadharma that takes one aspect of Tantrayana sexual practice and runs with it as if it's the be-all end-all of everything, not knowing much about the importance of the secrecy of Vajrayana; and even though there may be much truth to things I've posted in context, it is a bad idea to discuss these things so much on an open forum.

Honestly, I wish that my account could get deleted and all my posts deleted along with it.

We shouldn't even be talking about Vajrayana this much on open forums, let alone specific practices such as this.

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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by karmadrakpayeshe » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:04 am

frankc wrote:Can someone pass me the name's of some conservative Lama's that are 100% against any ejaculation no matter what part of the path the student is on and flamboyantly espouse the dangers of it. And if anyone here doesn't like this type of teaching, doesn't think it's legit, wants to tell me their opinion about it, doesn't agree with it, etc, thanks, but please don't tell me. :namaste:
Well, I am not a "lama" but that is my view, and I have taught it. If I find an actual lama going there, I'll pass it on XD. It's not something lamas are often on video on youtube talking about, but i'm sure some do XD

honestly you don't really have to look that hard i would think??? I mean you might not find a teacher flamboyantly going there on this topic but it would logically be the opinion of all lamas, because its in all the texts hindu and buddhist for thousands of years in that region.

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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by karmadrakpayeshe » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:08 am

Lhug-Pa wrote:I first came in to this forum all over-the-top on some new-age-wannabe-Buddhadharma that takes one aspect of Tantrayana sexual practice and runs with it as if it's the be-all end-all of everything, not knowing much about the importance of the secrecy of Vajrayana; and even though there may be much truth to things I've posted in context, it is a bad idea to discuss these things so much on an open forum.

Honestly, I wish that my account could get deleted and all my posts deleted along with it.

We shouldn't even be talking about Vajrayana this much on open forums, let alone specific practices such as this.
might be a good point. I'm not sure that he is referring to vajrayana here or is he? I mean retention of semen, as a lifestyle, saying nothing of tantric practice is a good idea for meditation in my experience and reading of the texts. Renunciation is the foot of meditation as it is taught, and what greater to renounce than one's sexual gratification?

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kirtu
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by kirtu » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:22 pm

karmadrakpayeshe wrote: Renunciation is the foot of meditation as it is taught, and what greater to renounce than one's sexual gratification?
Saving a being's life is greater than renouncing sexual gratification.

Renouncing harming is greater than renouncing sexual gratification (thus embracing the First Precept).

Renouncing not helping beings is even greater than renouncing sexual gratification since one actively aids beings helping them with Dharma or physical supports that they need.

Renouncing impatience and embracing patience is greater than renouncing sexual gratification ....

Renouncing personal nirvana is greater still (thus entering the path of the Bodhisattva).

In general renouncing the opposite of the six perfections and thus adopting the mastery of the perfections is greater than renouncing sexual gratification. And entering the path of the Bodhisattva is greater than renouncing sexual gratification. Becoming a Buddha is even greater.

Having said that, there are sutric practices for renouncing sexual gratification than can be spoken of (although the OP asked about complete retention which as I noted is usually not a real concern in Buddhism): during the observance of the Eight Mahayana Vows one does not engage in sexual activity, during Nyung Ney's (2 day) or a one day observance of a Nyung Ney sexual activity is abandoned (since the Eight Mahayana Vows are the vow part of the practice), following the practice of the layperson in the mode of Chandragomin is the other main sutric practice (unfortunately this has not entirely disappeared but practically no one hears anything about it). But arguably being a hermit who has otherwise renounced all of samsara but not renounced sexual activity per se is greater than even Chandragomin's practice - Chatral Rinpoche for example had two daughters (although there is more to this than something strictly ordinary).

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Losal Samten
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by Losal Samten » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:02 pm

kirtu wrote:following the practice of the layperson in the mode of Chandragomin is the other main sutric practice (unfortunately this has not entirely disappeared but practically no one hears anything about it).
The gomin lineage isn't dead? I know the anagarika is still available in Theravada.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།

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kirtu
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Re: Lama's that teach 100% rentention

Post by kirtu » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:48 pm

Mother's Lap wrote:
kirtu wrote:following the practice of the layperson in the mode of Chandragomin is the other main sutric practice (unfortunately this has not entirely disappeared but practically no one hears anything about it).
The gomin lineage isn't dead? I know the anagarika is still available in Theravada.
I was told that it still exists but perhaps the person was wrong. In the Drikung lineage there is still a bhramacharya (total abstinence for a layperson) vow transmission. A friend of mine holds these vows but he would not consider himself a gomin actually, but my reading is that he almost fits the definition (except he eats after noon and watches TV and sometimes sings and wears cologne and most importantly - not all of his time is devoted to the Dharma [but much of it is]). So perhaps there is some confusion around the terminology.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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