is a sangha needed?

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jay88
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is a sangha needed?

Post by jay88 »

So as the title suggests is a Sangha needed? And what exactly is a Sangha ? I have been practicing alone for a few years now and I do wish I had the condition for a Sangha or a group of fellow buddhist practitioners. I read online about people interacting with members of their Sangha and think to myself I'm I missing a big part of the experience ? I know in my current situation it would be near impossible to communicate with Sangha in my part of the world . But I guess the mian thought is would It benefit my practice any if I did have them? So what do you guys think can any one give some examples of dharma practitioners who didn't have a Sangha, or why you think it would benefit ones practice to find a Sangha?
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by Redfaery »

Well, yes...the sangha is important. It's one of the three jewels. You take refuge in it, along with the Buddha and the Dharma. No matter how well you think you're doing on your own, you would do so much better with others helping you.
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by dzoki »

There are two kinds of sangha, there is Arya Sangha consisting of arhats, pratyeka buddhas and bodhisattvas (including our teachers) and ordinary sangha consisting of unrealized persons. You definitely need arya sangha as a guide.

As for ordinary sangha. It depends on the people you meet (and yourself too, obviously). Having people who are like minded when it comes to Dharma can be a great help, you can share many things with them and most importantly practice together and learn from them. Sometimes you meet people who only pay lip-service to Dharma, but we are all human beings and (probably) nobody is perfect. I have seen several people leave their practice after they were disappointed finding out that Buddhists are before all people and not necessarily buddhas. Their experience broke their heart because they invested themselves into their local dharma group too much. So have an open mind, go check things out and see for yourself. I am sure you will have great time and meet some amazing people.
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by jay88 »

Thanks for the replys the problems is the closest Sanghato me that speak English is in India or Nepal.
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by chimechodra »

If you have a lama, the lama is the embodiment of the buddha, dharma, and sangha. If you keep clear faith and devotion, the lama will always be with you, along with the dakinis, the inner sangha.
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by muni »

chimechodra wrote:If you have a lama, the lama is the embodiment of the buddha, dharma, and sangha. If you keep clear faith and devotion, the lama will always be with you, along with the dakinis, the inner sangha.
How wonderful! :buddha1:
Conversely, viewing the self as a mere convention or as a designated label for our dynamic stream of experience - consciousness in relation to the body and the world - is in harmony with the interdependent and impermanent nature of reality; and leads to a state of well-being grounded in wisdom, altruism, compassion, and inner freedom.
https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/blog/ ... he-self--2

Simplicity reveals the nature of the mind behind the veil of restless thoughts.
https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/blog/ ... plicity--2
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

dzoki wrote:There are two kinds of sangha, there is Arya Sangha consisting of arhats, pratyeka buddhas and bodhisattvas (including our teachers) and ordinary sangha consisting of unrealized persons. You definitely need arya sangha as a guide.

As for ordinary sangha. It depends on the people you meet (and yourself too, obviously). Having people who are like minded when it comes to Dharma can be a great help, you can share many things with them and most importantly practice together and learn from them. Sometimes you meet people who only pay lip-service to Dharma, but we are all human beings and (probably) nobody is perfect. I have seen several people leave their practice after they were disappointed finding out that Buddhists are before all people and not necessarily buddhas. Their experience broke their heart because they invested themselves into their local dharma group too much. So have an open mind, go check things out and see for yourself. I am sure you will have great time and meet some amazing people.
Wonderful reply to a very sincere question! I would the admonition from Shayamuni Buddha:
"A sutra says: “Rely on the Law and not upon persons. Rely on the meaning of the teaching and not on the words. Rely on wisdom and not on discriminative thinking. Rely on sutras that are complete and final and not on those that are not complete and final.”The meaning of this passage is that one should not rely upon the words of the Bodhisattvas and teachers, but should heed what was established by the Buddha. It further means that one should not rely upon the teachings of the True Word, Zen, and Nembutsu schools, which are based upon the sutras of the Flower Garland, Āgama, Correct and Equal, and Wisdom periods,but should uphold the sutras that are complete and final. And by relying upon “sutras that are complete and final,” it means upholding the Lotus Sutra.

JazzIsTvRicky
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by DGA »

JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
Wonderful reply to a very sincere question! I would the admonition from Shayamuni Buddha:
"A sutra says: “Rely on the Law and not upon persons. Rely on the meaning of the teaching and not on the words. Rely on wisdom and not on discriminative thinking. Rely on sutras that are complete and final and not on those that are not complete and final.”The meaning of this passage is that one should not rely upon the words of the Bodhisattvas and teachers, but should heed what was established by the Buddha. It further means that one should not rely upon the teachings of the True Word, Zen, and Nembutsu schools, which are based upon the sutras of the Flower Garland, Āgama, Correct and Equal, and Wisdom periods,but should uphold the sutras that are complete and final. And by relying upon “sutras that are complete and final,” it means upholding the Lotus Sutra.
Where does Shakyamuni Buddha make such a statement?

If not Shakyamuni, then who are you quoting there?
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by joy&peace »

hi jay88

haven't read the previous replies (sometimes I do), but I thought I'd give a shot at an answer. Sangha is there, needed and there - but it is also all things. . in a sense. So, the birds and trees, and all this, is always with you - and that's Sangha, too.

One can get enlightened... i really - All i can say is i have full faith in the idea that enlightenment can happen anytime, anyplace. . and i always hope it will happen to me
:smile:
that was all for Muni, and you and all, and Tashi Delek :twothumbsup:

so i will jump back to the question - also Sangha is kinda good to have, it's necessary and important -- like the Three Jewels are fairly inter-dependent. . .


Buddha needs a Sangha, and Dharma and Buddha . . . yeah, they are all connected.

So anyway, all the best and yes. . .

may all be healthy,
happy, and at peace

Namaste
:buddha2:
Om Gate Gate Paragate Parasamgate bodhi svaha
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

DGA wrote:
JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
Wonderful reply to a very sincere question! I would the admonition from Shayamuni Buddha:
"A sutra says: “Rely on the Law and not upon persons. Rely on the meaning of the teaching and not on the words. Rely on wisdom and not on discriminative thinking. Rely on sutras that are complete and final and not on those that are not complete and final.”The meaning of this passage is that one should not rely upon the words of the Bodhisattvas and teachers, but should heed what was established by the Buddha. It further means that one should not rely upon the teachings of the True Word, Zen, and Nembutsu schools, which are based upon the sutras of the Flower Garland, Āgama, Correct and Equal, and Wisdom periods,but should uphold the sutras that are complete and final. And by relying upon “sutras that are complete and final,” it means upholding the Lotus Sutra.
Where does Shakyamuni Buddha make such a statement?

If not Shakyamuni, then who are you quoting there?
Firstly I was responding to the question asked by the person who answered the person who initiated this post.

If you would have done your research, the questions you ask are readily searchable in the many resources available to us in this the age of technology.

It amazes me, that you do not recognize the phrase "Rely on the Law" it makes sense to many true seekers of the way. Have you ever heard of the Nirvana Sutra? :shrug:

In many of Nichiren Daishonin's writings he refers to this teaching, yet you fail to recognize it. That's amazing to me! For instance, In the Gosho: -On Repaying Debts of Gratitude-Nichiren writes, "In a a scripture called the Nirvana Sutra, the Buddha says, “Rely on the Law and not upon persons.” Relying on the Law here means relying on the various sutras. Not relying upon persons means not relying on persons other than the Buddha, such as the bodhisattvas Universal Worthy and Manjushrī or the various Buddhist teachers I have enumerated earlier."

The other question can be answered by using your mind and figuring out how to find the answer. I was trying to be impartial with this person who initiated the question.

I hope this answers your queries and pray for your happiness in this life!

Sincerely, JazzIs
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by Virgo »

The Sangha is an important support.

Virgo
muni
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by muni »

Sangha is support, to encourage, inspire.... :namaste:

But then, I guess the yogis/yoginis go in solitude, practise and realize the dualistic visions aren't and so Buddha-Dharma and Sangha are not three things apart. Then all is Guru-Buddha, all is Dharma, all is Sangha.
the lama will always be with you
As Lama/Guru is not just appearing form.
Conversely, viewing the self as a mere convention or as a designated label for our dynamic stream of experience - consciousness in relation to the body and the world - is in harmony with the interdependent and impermanent nature of reality; and leads to a state of well-being grounded in wisdom, altruism, compassion, and inner freedom.
https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/blog/ ... he-self--2

Simplicity reveals the nature of the mind behind the veil of restless thoughts.
https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/blog/ ... plicity--2
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heart
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by heart »

JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
DGA wrote:
JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
Wonderful reply to a very sincere question! I would the admonition from Shayamuni Buddha:
"A sutra says: “Rely on the Law and not upon persons. Rely on the meaning of the teaching and not on the words. Rely on wisdom and not on discriminative thinking. Rely on sutras that are complete and final and not on those that are not complete and final.”The meaning of this passage is that one should not rely upon the words of the Bodhisattvas and teachers, but should heed what was established by the Buddha. It further means that one should not rely upon the teachings of the True Word, Zen, and Nembutsu schools, which are based upon the sutras of the Flower Garland, Āgama, Correct and Equal, and Wisdom periods,but should uphold the sutras that are complete and final. And by relying upon “sutras that are complete and final,” it means upholding the Lotus Sutra.
Where does Shakyamuni Buddha make such a statement?

If not Shakyamuni, then who are you quoting there?
Firstly I was responding to the question asked by the person who answered the person who initiated this post.

If you would have done your research, the questions you ask are readily searchable in the many resources available to us in this the age of technology.

It amazes me, that you do not recognize the phrase "Rely on the Law" it makes sense to many true seekers of the way. Have you ever heard of the Nirvana Sutra? :shrug:

In many of Nichiren Daishonin's writings he refers to this teaching, yet you fail to recognize it. That's amazing to me! For instance, In the Gosho: -On Repaying Debts of Gratitude-Nichiren writes, "In a a scripture called the Nirvana Sutra, the Buddha says, “Rely on the Law and not upon persons.” Relying on the Law here means relying on the various sutras. Not relying upon persons means not relying on persons other than the Buddha, such as the bodhisattvas Universal Worthy and Manjushrī or the various Buddhist teachers I have enumerated earlier."

The other question can be answered by using your mind and figuring out how to find the answer. I was trying to be impartial with this person who initiated the question.

I hope this answers your queries and pray for your happiness in this life!

Sincerely, JazzIs
This might be helpful for your understanding of the four reliances:

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Four_reliances

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

heart wrote:
JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
DGA wrote:
Where does Shakyamuni Buddha make such a statement?

If not Shakyamuni, then who are you quoting there?
Firstly I was responding to the question asked by the person who answered the person who initiated this post.

If you would have done your research, the questions you ask are readily searchable in the many resources available to us in this the age of technology.

It amazes me, that you do not recognize the phrase "Rely on the Law" it makes sense to many true seekers of the way. Have you ever heard of the Nirvana Sutra? :shrug:

In many of Nichiren Daishonin's writings he refers to this teaching, yet you fail to recognize it. That's amazing to me! For instance, In the Gosho: -On Repaying Debts of Gratitude-Nichiren writes, "In a a scripture called the Nirvana Sutra, the Buddha says, “Rely on the Law and not upon persons.” Relying on the Law here means relying on the various sutras. Not relying upon persons means not relying on persons other than the Buddha, such as the bodhisattvas Universal Worthy and Manjushrī or the various Buddhist teachers I have enumerated earlier."

The other question can be answered by using your mind and figuring out how to find the answer. I was trying to be impartial with this person who initiated the question.

I hope this answers your queries and pray for your happiness in this life!

Sincerely, JazzIs
This might be helpful for your understanding of the four reliances:

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Four_reliances

/magnus
Thank you for offering this valuable information. I will study it and learn... :reading:

Sincerely, JazzIsTvRicky
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by jake »

JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
DGA wrote:
JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
Wonderful reply to a very sincere question! I would the admonition from Shayamuni Buddha:
"A sutra says: “Rely on the Law and not upon persons. Rely on the meaning of the teaching and not on the words. Rely on wisdom and not on discriminative thinking. Rely on sutras that are complete and final and not on those that are not complete and final.”The meaning of this passage is that one should not rely upon the words of the Bodhisattvas and teachers, but should heed what was established by the Buddha. It further means that one should not rely upon the teachings of the True Word, Zen, and Nembutsu schools, which are based upon the sutras of the Flower Garland, Āgama, Correct and Equal, and Wisdom periods,but should uphold the sutras that are complete and final. And by relying upon “sutras that are complete and final,” it means upholding the Lotus Sutra.
Where does Shakyamuni Buddha make such a statement?

If not Shakyamuni, then who are you quoting there?
Firstly I was responding to the question asked by the person who answered the person who initiated this post.

If you would have done your research, the questions you ask are readily searchable in the many resources available to us in this the age of technology.

It amazes me, that you do not recognize the phrase "Rely on the Law" it makes sense to many true seekers of the way. Have you ever heard of the Nirvana Sutra? :shrug:

In many of Nichiren Daishonin's writings he refers to this teaching, yet you fail to recognize it. That's amazing to me! For instance, In the Gosho: -On Repaying Debts of Gratitude-Nichiren writes, "In a a scripture called the Nirvana Sutra, the Buddha says, “Rely on the Law and not upon persons.” Relying on the Law here means relying on the various sutras. Not relying upon persons means not relying on persons other than the Buddha, such as the bodhisattvas Universal Worthy and Manjushrī or the various Buddhist teachers I have enumerated earlier."

The other question can be answered by using your mind and figuring out how to find the answer. I was trying to be impartial with this person who initiated the question.

I hope this answers your queries and pray for your happiness in this life!

Sincerely, JazzIs
Interesting way to answer a question JazzIs. I'm fairly confident the Nirvana Sutra says nothing about Nembutsu schools, Zen, or True Word (Shingon) and am quite certain you were quoting Nichiren and not the Nirvana Sutra directly. So, when you attribute the entire paragraph to Shakyamuni instead of Nichiren it is bound to cause misunderstanding. Further, I would venture to say that few people on this website have studied much of Nichiren and so it shouldn't be surprising that people don't instantly recognise an unattributed copy-paste from SGI's website.

Best,
jake
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

jake wrote:
JazzIsTvRicky wrote:
DGA wrote:
Where does Shakyamuni Buddha make such a statement?

If not Shakyamuni, then who are you quoting there?
Firstly I was responding to the question asked by the person who answered the person who initiated this post.

If you would have done your research, the questions you ask are readily searchable in the many resources available to us in this the age of technology.

It amazes me, that you do not recognize the phrase "Rely on the Law" it makes sense to many true seekers of the way. Have you ever heard of the Nirvana Sutra? :shrug:

In many of Nichiren Daishonin's writings he refers to this teaching, yet you fail to recognize it. That's amazing to me! For instance, In the Gosho: -On Repaying Debts of Gratitude-Nichiren writes, "In a a scripture called the Nirvana Sutra, the Buddha says, “Rely on the Law and not upon persons.” Relying on the Law here means relying on the various sutras. Not relying upon persons means not relying on persons other than the Buddha, such as the bodhisattvas Universal Worthy and Manjushrī or the various Buddhist teachers I have enumerated earlier."

The other question can be answered by using your mind and figuring out how to find the answer. I was trying to be impartial with this person who initiated the question.

I hope this answers your queries and pray for your happiness in this life!

Sincerely, JazzIs
Interesting way to answer a question JazzIs. I'm fairly confident the Nirvana Sutra says nothing about Nembutsu schools, Zen, or True Word (Shingon) and am quite certain you were quoting Nichiren and not the Nirvana Sutra directly. So, when you attribute the entire paragraph to Shakyamuni instead of Nichiren it is bound to cause misunderstanding. Further, I would venture to say that few people on this website have studied much of Nichiren and so it shouldn't be surprising that people don't instantly recognise an unattributed copy-paste from SGI's website.

Best,
jake
My friend Jake, the posting here is, "So as the title suggests is a Sangha needed? And what exactly is a Sangha ? I have been practicing alone for a few years now and I do wish I had the condition for a Sangha or a group of fellow buddhist practitioners. I read online about people interacting with members of their Sangha and think to myself I'm I missing a big part of the experience ? I know in my current situation it would be near impossible to communicate with Sangha in my part of the world . But I guess the mian thought is would It benefit my practice any if I did have them? So what do you guys think can any one give some examples of dharma practitioners who didn't have a Sangha, or why you think it would benefit ones practice to find a Sangha?"

And as another person who has replied and offered sincere and valuable information, Quotes:

"We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.
~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,
You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.
So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,
That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."
-Longchenpa"


My point here is that you are :offtopic: :offtopic: and there is no need for me to argue about 21st century tools available to use as I choose. What do you have to offer to the person who initiated this wonderful topic? That, seems to me to be what's important here!

Sincerely, JazzIs, A Votary of the Lotus Sutra

Note: I have learned so much from participating here on these wonderful forums. It is indeed an opportunity appreciated! :reading:
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by DGA »

JazzIsTvRicky wrote:there is no need for me to argue about 21st century tools available to use as I choose
it's not a question of technology, it's a question of honesty. You claimed that a statement made by one person, Nichiren, was actually made by another person, Buddha Shakyamuni. This is simply untrue. You made a false statement. Whether or not it was technologically convenient for you is irrelevant.

Remember that we are in the Tibetan Buddhism subforum. Ask yourself: is Nichiren any kind of authority on the question of whether one needs to take refuge in all three jewels for a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner? How are Nichiren's remarks on the different Japanese Buddhist schools of his time relevant to contemporary Tibetan Buddhist practitioners?
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by JazzIsTvRicky »

DGA wrote:
JazzIsTvRicky wrote:there is no need for me to argue about 21st century tools available to use as I choose
it's not a question of technology, it's a question of honesty. You claimed that a statement made by one person, Nichiren, was actually made by another person, Buddha Shakyamuni. This is simply untrue. You made a false statement. Whether or not it was technologically convenient for you is irrelevant.

Remember that we are in the Tibetan Buddhism subforum. Ask yourself: is Nichiren any kind of authority on the question of whether one needs to take refuge in all three jewels for a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner? How are Nichiren's remarks on the different Japanese Buddhist schools of his time relevant to contemporary Tibetan Buddhist practitioners?
The question asked here is not who said what but rather about practicing with a group of people. Your inappropriate accusations are Laugable at best. I did not want to put my personal thoughts in his choice. That's his call. Consistency is what matters and all of my post are consistent and verifiable. So no more of this off topic ping pong. I' have offered my input Where is yours? Stick to to topic! I am not the topic.

Sincerely, JazzIsTvRicky
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by Rishin »

As an outsider can I just get some clarification please?

JazzIsTvRicky is wrong when he attributes the quote to Shakyamuni Buddha?

He was mistaken, yeah?


JazzIsTvRicky,

From the perspective of someone who is still new to Buddhism let me offer you some advice. It's probably best to look at how you present yourself on here, I'm sure you can be of great help but some attitudes can overshadow any message you might have. This in turn will turn people away from what you have to say.

I imagine you are here to learn and help others and not to simply try and show what you think you
know whilst disparaging anyone who questions you.

Just a thought.
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Re: is a sangha needed?

Post by DGA »

Rishin wrote:As an outsider can I just get some clarification please?

JazzIsTvRicky is wrong when he attributes the quote to Shakyamuni Buddha?

He was mistaken, yeah?
JiTR mistakenly attributed something Nichiren said to Shakyamuni Buddha. Weirdness ensued when jake pointed this out to JiTR.

Of course it's not a problem to attribute something Shakyamuni is said to have said in the sutras to Shakyamuni.
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