Vira, Yogin, Daka

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Konchog1
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Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:13 am

What is the difference between these three terms?

They seem to be used interchangeably.

Thank you.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby Fortyeightvows » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:32 am

Throw pawo in there too.
:shrug:

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Konchog1
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby Konchog1 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:16 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:Throw pawo in there too.
:shrug:
Pawo is Tibetan for Vira. You're right, there could be three more words!
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

crazy-man
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby crazy-man » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:33 am

vira वीर adj., fem., or mas. = strong, wife, man, etc.
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?tinput=vIra

yogin योगिन् adj. or mas. = possessed of, devotee, ascetic
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?begi ... =Translate

daka डाक mas., = imp attending kAlI
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?begi ... =Translate
http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Daka

dakini डाकिनी fem. = female imp attending kAlI
http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?begi ... =Translate
http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/mkha%27_%27gro
http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Dakini

pawo dpa' bo = literally "brave guy"
http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/dpa%27_bo

pamo dpa' bo = female heroine
http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/dpa%27_mo

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby Fortyeightvows » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:51 pm

Konchog1 wrote:Pawo is Tibetan for Vira. You're right, there could be three more words!

I was told it was tibetan for daka.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby dzogchungpa » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:05 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:Pawo is Tibetan for Vira. You're right, there could be three more words!

I was told it was tibetan for daka.

I think it can be both. 'Daka' can also be translated as 'khandro'.
The whole purpose of Buddhism is to have fun, isn't it? - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

The secret of having fun is nongrasping. - Anam Thubten

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tomamundsen
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby tomamundsen » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:52 pm

PKTC Illuminator says:

>> དཔའ་བོ་
>> <noun> "Hero", "warrior". Translation of the Sanskrit "vīra".
...
Note that although the term has often been translated by Western practitioners with the Sanskrit "ḍāka", that is not correct, it is as shown above...

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Karma Jinpa
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby Karma Jinpa » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:00 am

Save for a line drawing or two, has anyone seen depictions of Dakas in the Tibetan form of Vajrayana? Seems that although technically Khandro should refer to Dakas, and Khandroma to Dakinis, in usage Khandro almost always functions for Dakinis. (Incidentally, why wasn't Daka translated as Khandropa? One can only wonder...)

For example, we have Khandro Rinpoche, a high profile female lama and tulku of 15th Gyalwang Karmapa's sangyum. Even in the Seven Line Prayer to Guru Rinpo he, we have khor du khandro mangpö kor, "Surrounded by many hosts of ḍākinīs."

Perhaps the Dakas in Tibetan Vajrayana were a casualty of this translation and conflation of terms? Or was it some other reason? I, for one, am all ears.

Do Viras/Pawos play a prominent role somewhere I'm not aware of? Again, the Pawo incarnation line is important in Karma Kagyu, but I've not seen much use of the term otherwise.

As an aside, Yogin is technically the root form, based on my (admittedly cursory) research. Yogi is male nominative singular, while Yogini is female. Most sanghas seem to use Yogin as a gender neutral term (there is, after all, enough of a gender inequity in praxis throughout Tibetan Buddhism's history).

For some reason I simply don't care for Yogin, though, since Yogi and Yogini have both been used historically (and feel more natural, whatever that means). Yogin's pronunciation by sangha members tends to have a short i sound, rather than the long i sound of both Yogi and Yogini. We could, I suppose, say "yoga practitioners," but why not just say "Yogis and Yoginis"? Is the root term Yogin attested in the Sanskrit Tantras?
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby dzogchungpa » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:57 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:Do Viras/Pawos play a prominent role somewhere I'm not aware of? Again, the Pawo incarnation line is important in Karma Kagyu, but I've not seen much use of the term otherwise.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the dpa' in byang chub sems dpa', rdo rje sems dpa' etc. is short for dpa' bo.
The whole purpose of Buddhism is to have fun, isn't it? - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

The secret of having fun is nongrasping. - Anam Thubten

jmlee369
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby jmlee369 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:16 am

Skt: vira = Tib: pawo
Skt: daka = Tib: khadro
Skt: yogin = Tib: neljorpa

Vira is hero, often equated with daka (male equivalent of dakini), but it remains a distinct concept. Yogin is generally a practitioner of yoga.

Karma Jinpa wrote:Save for a line drawing or two, has anyone seen depictions of Dakas in the Tibetan form of Vajrayana? Seems that although technically Khandro should refer to Dakas, and Khandroma to Dakinis, in usage Khandro almost always functions for Dakinis. (Incidentally, why wasn't Daka translated as Khandropa? One can only wonder...)

For example, we have Khandro Rinpoche, a high profile female lama and tulku of 15th Gyalwang Karmapa's sangyum. Even in the Seven Line Prayer to Guru Rinpo he, we have khor du khandro mangpö kor, "Surrounded by many hosts of ḍākinīs."

Perhaps the Dakas in Tibetan Vajrayana were a casualty of this translation and conflation of terms? Or was it some other reason? I, for one, am all ears.


For reasons of convenience and especially poetic metre, Tibetans have abbreviated khadroma to khadro, giving rise to confusion in translation where khadro actually does refer to daka.

There is at least one fairly well known daka practice in the Gelug tradition, Vajradaka (Dorje khadro), the practice of which involves burning a black sesame scorpian for the purification of negativities. The Gelug merit field also features both dakas and dakinis in the row above protectors. In Chakrasamvara practice, the retinue deities of the 24 places are all in pairs of dakas and dakinis.

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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby Karma Jinpa » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:44 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Karma Jinpa wrote:Do Viras/Pawos play a prominent role somewhere I'm not aware of? Again, the Pawo incarnation line is important in Karma Kagyu, but I've not seen much use of the term otherwise.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the dpa' in byang chub sems dpa', rdo rje sems dpa' etc. is short for dpa' bo.

I do believe you're right. IIRC, Kyabjé Bokar Rinpoche mentions in Taking the Bodhisattva Vow that the Tibetans translated Bodhisattva "being of enlightened mind" as "hero of enlightened mind."

sems dpa' is more literally "brave mind," but carries the connotation of "spiritual warrior." Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche commented on this too, no?
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Vira, Yogin, Daka

Postby dzogchungpa » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:17 am

Karma Jinpa wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Karma Jinpa wrote:Do Viras/Pawos play a prominent role somewhere I'm not aware of? Again, the Pawo incarnation line is important in Karma Kagyu, but I've not seen much use of the term otherwise.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the dpa' in byang chub sems dpa', rdo rje sems dpa' etc. is short for dpa' bo.

I do believe you're right. IIRC, Kyabjé Bokar Rinpoche mentions in Taking the Bodhisattva Vow that the Tibetans translated Bodhisattva "being of enlightened mind" as "hero of enlightened mind."

sems dpa' is more literally "brave mind," but carries the connotation of "spiritual warrior." Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche commented on this too, no?

I don't know if CTR talked about this, but you might be interested in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=14132

The paper by Bhattacharya mentioned there is now available online:
https://www.academia.edu/11952573/2010_-_How_to_Justify_the_Spelling_of_the_Buddhist_Hybrid_Sanskrit_Term_Bodhisatva_in_From_Turfan_to_Ajanta._Festschrift_for_Dieter_Schlingloff_on_the_Occasion_of_his_Eightieth_Birthday_ed._by_Eli_Franco_and_Monika_Zin_Lumbini_Int._Research_Institute_2_vols._pp._35-49
The whole purpose of Buddhism is to have fun, isn't it? - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

The secret of having fun is nongrasping. - Anam Thubten


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