Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

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Natan
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Natan »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:27 pm
Boomerang wrote:yidam
"Yi dam" means "promise," actually. Thus, if you are a Dzogchen practitioner, your promise is vidyā. If you say that you are a Dzogchen practitioner, you are essentially claiming that vidyā is your yidam. Everything else is secondary.
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Natan
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Natan »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:14 pm
tingdzin wrote:
This is the highest viewpoint, but when one is just starting yidam practice, it might not be helpful to be too facile about the whole thing. There is the ever-present peril of over-intellectualizing one's practice.

As I said, if you do keep your Vajrayana practices secret, you can't go wrong.
Sure, especially if your main practice is the mani mantra.
I don’t think his main practice is the mani mantra. It’s mahamudra.
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Natan »

If your teacher said, Don’t ever even mention the name of this... that’s what you do. Overall it’s best to keep everything a secret. So many reasons why this is beneficial.
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Natan »

Garchen R has stated many times he’s always in a completion stage visualization.
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fckw
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by fckw »

We know the Yidams of Padmasambhava, the 84 Mahasiddhas, etc. So, either they did not keep them secret, or someone close to them could not keep their mouth shut.

Keeping things secret or not - we should get the priorities right: it's about realization, not secrecy (or lack thereof). The first promise or vow you have with a yidam is to realize its essence. Everything else is secondary to that.

And for those who rhetorically ask what good it could possibly be to reveal one's yidam: well, of course a lot! Talking more or less openly about your yidam with other qualified practitioners can serve as inspiration to them. It can help as a checkpoint to understand whether they are deviating from the practice or not. It can help understanding where you are on the path. It can also help finding a language for some realizations you could not really put a word on. Last, but not least, it can theoretically help finding a qualified and willing consort for Karmamudra practice (which anyway nobody practices among Western students of Vajrayana).

So, I would actually simply ask your yidam if s/he (it?) wants to be revealed or not. Perhaps listening to your teacher's opinion might also be not the worst idea. But as I said above better to make sure you've realized its essence before asking.
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Sherab
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Sherab »

Jangchup Donden wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:54 am
Sherab wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:04 am
Boomerang wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:41 am Sometimes I read that you aren't supposed to reveal the yidam you practice. Other times I read biographies or watch YouTube videos of living people and they, well, reveal their yidam clear as day. I had a conversation with somebody today and they told the whole room what their main practice is. So, how does this work? Is this not revealing your yidam thing a matter of opinion? Is there a threshold after which it's okay to reveal it? Does it matter with some tantric practices but not others?
What is the benefit (to your audience or yourself) of revealing your yidam? I don't see any. I see only downside.
How else are you going to let everyone know what a super awesome advanced yogi you are?

But in seriousness, I can *maybe* see a teacher letting a group of their students know to increase their devotion to that practice.
I think the OP does not refer to a teacher and I respond accordingly. If you are an enlightened teacher, you are not bounded by any rules. If you are not an enlightened teacher, it is better to follow the rules as they are meant for the benefits of the unenlightened.
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Grigoris
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Grigoris »

fckw wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:59 pm We know the Yidams of Padmasambhava, the 84 Mahasiddhas, etc. So, either they did not keep them secret, or someone close to them could not keep their mouth shut.
I don't think any of us here at the level of the people you just mentioned, so we gotta be a little wary of imitating their behaviour.
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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

fckw wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:59 pm We know the Yidams of Padmasambhava, the 84 Mahasiddhas, etc. So, either they did not keep them secret, or someone close to them could not keep their mouth shut.
As Grigoris has said. It is mostly about the fact that once you get realized to a certain level there it really does not matter if you keep it secret or not. However, for us it matters quite a bit as secrecy can help develop the practice and gain siddhis.
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Natan
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Natan »

In the traditional idea if you don’t keep secret you lose siddhi. If you keep secret you gain siddhi. Lamas are teaching us so they are saying what to keep secret.
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Jangchup Donden
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Jangchup Donden »

Grigoris wrote: Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:02 pm
fckw wrote: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:59 pm We know the Yidams of Padmasambhava, the 84 Mahasiddhas, etc. So, either they did not keep them secret, or someone close to them could not keep their mouth shut.
I don't think any of us here at the level of the people you just mentioned, so we gotta be a little wary of imitating their behaviour.
They're also long dead. I imagine apart from those who participated in the flower tossing ceremony where they received their yidams no one else knew, at least until they achieved realization.
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mechashivaz
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by mechashivaz »

What about pictures of yidams as art appreciation? If you don't have an empowerment for the yidam would it break samaya to "show it off"? I prefer to err on the side of caution but I see it happening often.
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by Malcolm »

mechashivaz wrote: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:07 am What about pictures of yidams as art appreciation? If you don't have an empowerment for the yidam would it break samaya to "show it off"? I prefer to err on the side of caution but I see it happening often.
Yes.
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Re: Does it matter if you reveal your yidam?

Post by kausalya »

For one particular Yidam, I've been told, "Don't even tell your wife." Down the road, I thought it would be ok to mention it to my then-fiancée in a devotional/protective context, offering her help with a specific issue. She didn't understand, and I consider myself to have paid a huge price for it in a variety of contexts, even though my disclosure never prompted a further discussion.

At least (I believe) I've learned my lesson, and will never again make the same mistake. Ditto regarding why I'm hesitant to talk about HYT or tantra in general with anyone outside of my immediate Sangha, but even so, I perceive being asked to use my judgment unless explicitly directed to maintain absolute secrecy, either individually or as part of a group receiving instruction.
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