incarnation in families

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HandsomeMonkeyking
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incarnation in families

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:43 pm

It seems to me that some families have a lot of Tulkus as brothers, sisters, children.

What reasons would Tulkus have to reincarnate in these families and not reincarnate in just any, like a farmers on the land?

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by PuerAzaelis » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:36 pm

Because being a drunk deposed aristocrat has more advantages than being a farmer's kid.
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Fortyeightvows
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:20 am

Maybe it happens alot but we just don't hear about it.

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yan kong
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by yan kong » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:45 am

Or possibly because being reborn into a wealthy family was a favorable rebirth. The Buddha wasn't born into a farming family either.
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by Virgo » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:31 am

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:It seems to me that some families have a lot of Tulkus as brothers, sisters, children.

What reasons would Tulkus have to reincarnate in these families and not reincarnate in just any, like a farmers on the land?
If you ask me they are all Balcoins.

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tingdzin
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by tingdzin » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:14 am

A tulku who is reborn in a family where Dharma is the pre-eminent activity might have a leg up on learning how to benefit sentient beings. There are also Vajrayana practices best accomplished in youth, so that being born into a family where these are practiced would also be an advantage.

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Re: incarnation in families

Post by Punya » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:03 am

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:It seems to me that some families have a lot of Tulkus as brothers, sisters, children.

What reasons would Tulkus have to reincarnate in these families and not reincarnate in just any, like a farmers on the land?
Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche was reborn into the family of Chogyur Lingpa. It is said that great beings can choose their rebirth and I believe he did this to maintain an earlier dharma connection. On the other hand, HH the Dalai Lama was reborn into a simple farming family. I dare say there were reasons for this too.
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philji
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by philji » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:25 am

Tulkus are born anywhere... look at the current Karmapa Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche.. Howeve with regard to families. Why not be reborn in favourable circumstances in a afmily of practitioners... Easier to pick up where you left off oerhaos. I know which i would choose. :spy:

philji
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by philji » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:25 am

Tulkus are born anywhere... look at the current Karmapa Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche.. Howeve with regard to families. Why not be reborn in favourable circumstances in a afmily of practitioners... Easier to pick up where you left off oerhaos. I know which i would choose. :spy:

michaelb
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by michaelb » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:57 am

philji wrote:Tulkus are born anywhere... look at the current Karmapa Orgyen Trinley Rinpoche.. Howeve with regard to families. Why not be reborn in favourable circumstances in a afmily of practitioners... Easier to pick up where you left off oerhaos. I know which i would choose. :spy:
The current Karmapa and the controversy around his recognition highlights issues with the tulku system. Whereas, in theory, tulkus can be born anywhere, like children of nomads, there are political reasons why the children of other lamas and those born to aristocratic or wealthy families are often recognised as tulkus. Indeed, the Karmapa controversy has been explained to me purely in terms of class conflict.
Another good example would be the incarnation of Lerab Lingpa. One candidate, Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok, was the child of nomads, the other, Sogyal rinpoche, was the son of a rich famous family.

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Malcolm
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by Malcolm » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:25 pm

Punya wrote:On the other hand, HH the Dalai Lama was reborn into a simple farming family. I dare say there were reasons for this too.
They were not that simple, they were wealthy enough to have already had tulkus nearby at Kumbum Monastery (HHDL's oldest brother). Thus, his family was already on the ecclesiastical radar.
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Punya
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by Punya » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:13 pm

Even as I was writing this I did wonder. Thank you for the correction Malcolm.
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HandsomeMonkeyking
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:44 pm

So if the wealth/worldy influence is such a big thing, does this undermine the whole Tulku thing?

It creates some suspiciousnes and doubt in me.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:57 pm

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:So if the wealth/worldy influence is such a big thing, does this undermine the whole Tulku thing?
I don't think it does, being born into a wealthy family certainly increases your odds of accessing dharma. Take Lama Zopa Rinpoche as an example, he's from a poor family and for a large portion of his young life struggled to get teachings.
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yan kong
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by yan kong » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:37 pm

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:So if the wealth/worldy influence is such a big thing, does this undermine the whole Tulku thing?

It creates some suspiciousnes and doubt in me.
I think it's important to remember that in modern society we have a rather cynical, but not always unwarranted view, of the social/economic elite. But this was not necessarily the case for other cultures or people's of different eras. Through another's eyes being born into a family of privilege and reputation could be a good sign.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

HandsomeMonkeyking
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by HandsomeMonkeyking » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:22 pm

But if there are two candidates, one from a poor family and one from a rich, and the rich is chosen, and then this happens often, it sounds strange.

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yan kong
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by yan kong » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:49 pm

HandsomeMonkeyking wrote:But if there are two candidates, one from a poor family and one from a rich, and the rich is chosen, and then this happens often, it sounds strange.
While at times it was surely politically motivated it also isn't always a rigged contest. Sometimes the rich child may be the correct incarnation. I don't think it is wise to accept any teacher because of their title of tulku, neither do I think it's necessary to practice the Vajrayana though you may have to navigate through that system. I'll say though that I don't think it will help you to consistently judge the process based on socio-economic factors. Sometimes it's about trying to find the child that has been reborn with the compassion to help all beings, be they rich, poor, Tibetan, Indian, American or whatever.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

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Grigoris
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:28 pm

Is there a single aspect of human life that is not political?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:41 pm

Grigoris wrote:Is there a single aspect of human life that is not political?
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.yKQu ... e&pid=15.1

This.

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Grigoris
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Re: incarnation in families

Post by Grigoris » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:35 pm

amanitamusc wrote:
Grigoris wrote:Is there a single aspect of human life that is not political?
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.yKQu ... e&pid=15.1

This.
Until you get sick and need to be treated, then even this becomes a political issue.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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