Where did buddha teach the tantra?

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diamind
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Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by diamind » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:08 pm

Where did buddha teach the tantra? Any books explaining where he taught what?

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Malcolm
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by Malcolm » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:28 pm

diamind wrote:Where did buddha teach the tantra? Any books explaining where he taught what?
Different tantras were taught in different places. Not in only one place.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

diamind
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by diamind » Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:54 pm

Where can I find a list? Do you know any of them?

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conebeckham
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by conebeckham » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:37 pm

Buddha, in the form of Vajradhara, taught the Guhyasamaja to King Indrabhuti in Oddiyana.

Kalacakra was taught at Dharanikota, at the same time the Buddha taught the PRajnaparamita Sutras at Bihar.

Guhyagarbha Tantra was taught by Kukuraja to Indrabhuti, though there are a variety of versions --including the magical book falling from the sky.

There are a variety of opinions regarding the origin of Hevajra Tantras as well.

Cakrasamvara is taught, even now, in Akanistha.


As you can no doubt deduce, your question cannot be adequately answered objectively! :smile:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

odysseus
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by odysseus » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:46 pm

Tantra comes straight from Shakyamuni. Even if it took 600 years to develop, he teached it to those who would listen.

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conebeckham
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by conebeckham » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:56 pm

odysseus wrote:Tantra comes straight from Shakyamuni. Even if it took 600 years to develop, he teached it to those who would listen.
Actually, not all Tantras......
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

odysseus
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by odysseus » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:16 pm

Well, most Tantras come from yogis and lamas. But they were initiated by Shakyamuni himself.

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Virgo
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by Virgo » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:40 am

odysseus wrote:Well, most Tantras come from yogis and lamas. But they were initiated by Shakyamuni himself.
.
No.

Tantras are generally taught by various other enlightened beings.

Kevin
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ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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Konchog1
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by Konchog1 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:59 am

conebeckham wrote:Buddha, in the form of Vajradhara, taught the Guhyasamaja to King Indrabhuti in Oddiyana

Kalacakra was taught at Dharanikota, at the same time the Buddha taught the PRajnaparamita Sutras at Bihar.

Guhyagarbha Tantra was taught by Kukuraja to Indrabhuti, though there are a variety of versions --including the magical book falling from the sky.

There are a variety of opinions regarding the origin of Hevajra Tantras as well.

Cakrasamvara is taught, even now, in Akanistha.

As you can no doubt deduce, your question cannot be adequately answered objectively! :smile:
If the Chakrasamvara is eternal and was taught to subdue Ishvara, then Ishvara is eternal.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

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Losal Samten
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by Losal Samten » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:03 am

Konchog1 wrote:If the Chakrasamvara is eternal and was taught to subdue Ishvara, then Ishvara is eternal.
Ishvara is as eternal in the same way the deva realms can be called eternal. Rudra is a position that's inhabited by transmigratory beings, just like there's always a Brahma (the first being to exist as the realms fill after the kalpa roll-over) but it's not the same mindstream.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།

odysseus
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by odysseus » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:50 pm

Virgo wrote:
odysseus wrote:Well, most Tantras come from yogis and lamas. But they were initiated by Shakyamuni himself.
.
No.

Tantras are generally taught by various other enlightened beings.

Kevin
That's what I really meant. They could be yogis and lamas. :thanks:

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heart
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Re: Where did buddha teach the tantra?

Post by heart » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:03 pm

Konchog1 wrote:
conebeckham wrote:Buddha, in the form of Vajradhara, taught the Guhyasamaja to King Indrabhuti in Oddiyana

Kalacakra was taught at Dharanikota, at the same time the Buddha taught the PRajnaparamita Sutras at Bihar.

Guhyagarbha Tantra was taught by Kukuraja to Indrabhuti, though there are a variety of versions --including the magical book falling from the sky.

There are a variety of opinions regarding the origin of Hevajra Tantras as well.

Cakrasamvara is taught, even now, in Akanistha.

As you can no doubt deduce, your question cannot be adequately answered objectively! :smile:
If the Chakrasamvara is eternal and was taught to subdue Ishvara, then Ishvara is eternal.
Logic is not helpful when approaching the Tantras. Either you jump, or you don't. Nothing really to discuss.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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