Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

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Karma_Yeshe
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Karma_Yeshe »

Nemo wrote: It is not the siddhi. It is the attachment to the sex and power. The massaging of particular favourites based on what they can give. Abuse of power is not a siddhi as far as I know.
This is true, of course.

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by dzogchungpa »

Norwegian wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Dzongsar likes using the word "bullshit," he does so often to describe this and that.
Is that actually true? I've listened to and heard a fair amount of his stuff and I don't recall him using that word very often, or even at all. He's certainly not afraid to use 'shit' and its derivatives but I honestly don't think he says "Such and such is bullshit." very often. So, I daresay, this comment of yours is 100% bullshit. :smile:
Some random Dzongsar Khyentse:
[...]If it is an interfaith religious conference, again I have to be hypocritical and I have to sort be careful, oh ya ya all religion are same. You know like everything leads to the heaven and all of that. But that’s actually a bullshit. Because it is not.
I’m also very wary of the way too many teachers (even those belonging to Krishnamurti’s organization) extract just one aspect of Buddha’s teachings, bury the Buddhist jargon, then claim that everything they say is their own revelation. It’s complete bullshit! Every word they say can be traced back to the sutras and tantras. So never forget that these ‘new age’ teachers merely focus on a single point that already exists in Buddhadharma, then present it as their own.
Yes, any more examples? Two instances is not enough to justify the use of 'often'. If you come up with a few more I will downgrade my bullshit rating. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Malcolm
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Dzongsar likes using the word "bullshit," he does so often to describe this and that.
Is that actually true? I've listened to and heard a fair amount of his stuff and I don't recall him using that word very often, or even at all. He's certainly not afraid to use 'shit' and its derivatives but I honestly don't think he says "Such and such is bullshit." very often. So, I daresay, this comment of yours is 100% bullshit. :smile:
Google.

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:
Is that actually true? I've listened to and heard a fair amount of his stuff and I don't recall him using that word very often, or even at all. He's certainly not afraid to use 'shit' and its derivatives but I honestly don't think he says "Such and such is bullshit." very often. So, I daresay, this comment of yours is 100% bullshit. :smile:
Some random Dzongsar Khyentse:
[...]If it is an interfaith religious conference, again I have to be hypocritical and I have to sort be careful, oh ya ya all religion are same. You know like everything leads to the heaven and all of that. But that’s actually a bullshit. Because it is not.
I’m also very wary of the way too many teachers (even those belonging to Krishnamurti’s organization) extract just one aspect of Buddha’s teachings, bury the Buddhist jargon, then claim that everything they say is their own revelation. It’s complete bullshit! Every word they say can be traced back to the sutras and tantras. So never forget that these ‘new age’ teachers merely focus on a single point that already exists in Buddhadharma, then present it as their own.
Yes, any more examples? Two instances is not enough to justify the use of 'often'. If you come up with a few more I will downgrade my bullshit rating. :smile:
No one is more blind than a person in love.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by dzogchungpa »

Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Yes, any more examples? Two instances is not enough to justify the use of 'often'. If you come up with a few more I will downgrade my bullshit rating. :smile:
No one is more blind than a person in love.
Still waiting for more examples, friend. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Adamantine »

Could we stop with the dharmic-language policing and get :focus: ? The mods are there to discern if any right speech directives are being crossed and nobody else needs to divert the topic into some puritanical meta analysis.

Overall it's enough to see DJKR finds it an acceptable vocabulary word to employ in public teachings regardless of quantity so it can't be considered offensive for someone to use it in an open discussion about his teachings.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by amanitamusc »

I have heard Tharchin Rinpoche say "I'm just bullshitting" a number of times during one of his teachings.

He was being humble imo.Same word different context.

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by buddhagirl »

Norwegian wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
The Tibetan establishment, being for the most part patriarchal, takes a dim view of feminist discourse since it threatens their patriarchy. It is really just that simple. The truly delightful Karma Lekshe Tsomo wrote:



but this is rather off topic and would be better served discussed elsewhere.
Malcolm you've mentioned the patriarchy a number of times in this thread - so how come when a woman (me) brings up feminism, it's "off topic"? Less off topic than suddenly deviating into a discussion of when one's sex is determined. And by the way, today where i am it's nyichu tsenga - so respect, please! :smile:
If you're interested in this topic, you can create a new thread about it, then it can be fully discussed there, in a proper way. That way there's less off-topic posts in this thread.
In a discussion largely triggered by Sogyal's misogynistic treatment of women there is nothing off topic about raising the topics of patriarchy/sexism/feminism, as your own frequent mentions of patriarchy in this thread attest. And i barely touched on 'feminism' in any case. So the need to shoo me off seems pretty sexist. Irony much?

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by buddhagirl »

Punya wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
No one said he's a dullwit. He just does not seem to be very clear and seems to be dissimulating. He pointed out his own misgivings of Lakar but stopped short of saying he isn't a qualified teacher and no samayas were created to be broken, yet at the same time he seems to be insinuating that students had broken samaya.
No not a dullwit by any stretch - a Khyentse after all! Before the current brouha-ha, in searching for possible rationale's for his bizarre put-downs of 'liberals' ie. those on the progressive side of politics, and for memory, those involved in social justice, i've wondered whether this stuff bugs him as it sort of drowns out the Buddhist voice. He's used to being in a position of authority, a monastic aristocrat if you like, and perhaps resents the dominant voice of other humanitarians in the global discourse. DKR's praise of members of the Bhutanese Royal family is also a bit one-eyed (i'm choosing my words carefully) and has put down feminists in earlier talks/writings.

All of this upsets me as I still have great respect for DKR. I wish he and OTR could just admit they have a bit of a conflict of interest when it comes to assessing Sogyal & Rigpa, and hence, can't be totally objective. Though why they can't show compassion for the abused Rigpa students who are experiencing a crisis of faith and abuse-related trauma is beyond me.
This might help you understand DJKR's "bizarre" put down of liberals and feminists buddhagirl https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=26313.
Thanks i'll look at it tonight/ over the weekend. Though if it's just more preaching, shoving his peculiar, partly medieval world view down our throats, I shan't be impressed.

Norwegian
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Norwegian »

buddhagirl wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
Malcolm you've mentioned the patriarchy a number of times in this thread - so how come when a woman (me) brings up feminism, it's "off topic"? Less off topic than suddenly deviating into a discussion of when one's sex is determined. And by the way, today where i am it's nyichu tsenga - so respect, please! :smile:
If you're interested in this topic, you can create a new thread about it, then it can be fully discussed there, in a proper way. That way there's less off-topic posts in this thread.
In a discussion largely triggered by Sogyal's misogynistic treatment of women there is nothing off topic about raising the topics of patriarchy/sexism/feminism, as your own frequent mentions of patriarchy in this thread attest. And i barely touched on 'feminism' in any case. So the need to shoo me off seems pretty sexist. Irony much?
No, you completely misunderstand.

The creation of a specific dedicated thread to that particular topic can allow one to explore more thoroughly (and in depth) that subject matter, where the space for that issue is 100% dedicated to it, instead of the primary subject matter discussed here, and some of the related ones.

The question then is, if you're really interested in an extended discussion on that topic, why are you not making such a thread? You've had plenty of time to do so, but so far nothing.

Just make a thread with a good title and opening post where you present the issue you want to discuss, and your thoughts on it, and I'm sure it'll gain traction.
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by buddhagirl »

Malcolm wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
liuzg150181 wrote: Afaik that totally contradicts how modern science understand the determination of gender,since it is fixed in stone the moment the egg is fertilized by the sperm. Though I prefer to keep my mind open with regards to this.
Some confusion above on terminology - Gender is a construct, a person's sex is biological - that's straight from my psych textbook. When doing research on people, it's sex-male, or sex-female. Of course now there's a lot more permutations but that's another story!
Buddhism identifies 7 different gender orientations. These are a combination of biological and afflictive patterning.
Perhaps you'd like to give a reference for that, thanks. But please note the clear demarcation in Western health & social sciences between sex and gender. It actually makes a lot of sense. We're not born with a gender - it's constructed.

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Virgo »

TaTa wrote:
This is a very usefull quote that i will keep around
But it in tantra effort is ok right?
I realize I am not Malcolm, but may I chime in?

In tantra effort is what is needed. For example, you have to attend a major empowerment, practice a sadhana daily as you generate yourself as the diety bit by bit and work on creation and completion stage, work on generating merit and purifying through the special methods, and ideally do retreat, and always do ganapujas and so on. That is correct.

In Dzogchen you do not need to do any of that, you just receive the Introduction, discover your nature through methods, and practice a simple Guru Yoga. Other things can be performed as need be.

So in tantra you need a lot of effort, in Dzogchen you really need very little/none.

Thank you,

Kevin

Malcolm
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Malcolm »

dzogchungpa wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Yes, any more examples? Two instances is not enough to justify the use of 'often'. If you come up with a few more I will downgrade my bullshit rating. :smile:
No one is more blind than a person in love.
Still waiting for more examples, friend. :smile:
Two are sufficient.

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by buddhagirl »

Norwegian wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
Norwegian wrote: If you're interested in this topic, you can create a new thread about it, then it can be fully discussed there, in a proper way. That way there's less off-topic posts in this thread.
In a discussion largely triggered by Sogyal's misogynistic treatment of women there is nothing off topic about raising the topics of patriarchy/sexism/feminism, as your own frequent mentions of patriarchy in this thread attest. And i barely touched on 'feminism' in any case. So the need to shoo me off seems pretty sexist. Irony much?
No, you completely misunderstand.

The creation of a specific dedicated thread to that particular topic can allow one to explore more thoroughly (and in depth) that subject matter, where the space for that issue is 100% dedicated to it, instead of the primary subject matter discussed here, and some of the related ones.

The question then is, if you're really interested in an extended discussion on that topic, why are you not making such a thread? You've had plenty of time to do so, but so far nothing.

Just make a thread with a good title and opening post where you present the issue you want to discuss, and your thoughts on it, and I'm sure it'll gain traction.
Hey Norwegian, i don't "completely misunderstand"!!! Please at least follow the genesis of this sub-topic so that you understand - Malcolm has, quite rightly, mentioned patriarchy a number of times in this thread, while i made a passing reference to feminism and was told i was off topic. And please stop telling me what to do! No wonder there aren't many women around here! Phew!

Malcolm
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Malcolm »

buddhagirl wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
In a discussion largely triggered by Sogyal's misogynistic treatment of women there is nothing off topic about raising the topics of patriarchy/sexism/feminism, as your own frequent mentions of patriarchy in this thread attest. And i barely touched on 'feminism' in any case. So the need to shoo me off seems pretty sexist. Irony much?
No, you completely misunderstand.

The creation of a specific dedicated thread to that particular topic can allow one to explore more thoroughly (and in depth) that subject matter, where the space for that issue is 100% dedicated to it, instead of the primary subject matter discussed here, and some of the related ones.

The question then is, if you're really interested in an extended discussion on that topic, why are you not making such a thread? You've had plenty of time to do so, but so far nothing.

Just make a thread with a good title and opening post where you present the issue you want to discuss, and your thoughts on it, and I'm sure it'll gain traction.
Hey Norwegian, i don't "completely misunderstand"!!! Please at least follow the genesis of this sub-topic so that you understand - Malcolm has, quite rightly, mentioned patriarchy a number of times in this thread, while i made a passing reference to feminism and was told i was off topic. And please stop telling me what to do! No wonder there aren't many women around here! Phew!
I think you misunderstood my point. I was suggesting that a wide ranging discussion of patriarchy was beyond the scope of this thread. I was not suggesting that a focused discussion of how patriarchal tendencies in our global culture are relevant to the Sogyal debacle is off topic.

liuzg150181
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by liuzg150181 »

Malcolm wrote:I think Āryadeva's rebuttal of lineage can apply to Buddhist lineages as well, especially Vajrayāna lineages. The longer the lineage, the more chance that someone in the lineage broke samaya. This is akin to a king being unsure of who fathered his son and heir, which is the example Āryadeva used.

This is why my guru counseled me that is was best to practice new termas, and discouraged me from practicing older termas like Longchen Nyinthig, etc.
One question in mind,does that mean that minor lineages have less chance that someone in the lineage broke samaya?

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Punya »

buddhagirl wrote:
Punya wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
No not a dullwit by any stretch - a Khyentse after all! Before the current brouha-ha, in searching for possible rationale's for his bizarre put-downs of 'liberals' ie. those on the progressive side of politics, and for memory, those involved in social justice, i've wondered whether this stuff bugs him as it sort of drowns out the Buddhist voice. He's used to being in a position of authority, a monastic aristocrat if you like, and perhaps resents the dominant voice of other humanitarians in the global discourse. DKR's praise of members of the Bhutanese Royal family is also a bit one-eyed (i'm choosing my words carefully) and has put down feminists in earlier talks/writings.

All of this upsets me as I still have great respect for DKR. I wish he and OTR could just admit they have a bit of a conflict of interest when it comes to assessing Sogyal & Rigpa, and hence, can't be totally objective. Though why they can't show compassion for the abused Rigpa students who are experiencing a crisis of faith and abuse-related trauma is beyond me.
This might help you understand DJKR's "bizarre" put down of liberals and feminists buddhagirl https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=26313.
Thanks i'll look at it tonight/ over the weekend. Though if it's just more preaching, shoving his peculiar, partly medieval world view down our throats, I shan't be impressed.
Entirely up to you. :smile: You said you were searching for information. If you start a new thread we can discuss "the peculiar, partly medieval world view" thingy too.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche

buddhagirl
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by buddhagirl »

Malcolm wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
Norwegian wrote: No, you completely misunderstand.

The creation of a specific dedicated thread to that particular topic can allow one to explore more thoroughly (and in depth) that subject matter, where the space for that issue is 100% dedicated to it, instead of the primary subject matter discussed here, and some of the related ones.

The question then is, if you're really interested in an extended discussion on that topic, why are you not making such a thread? You've had plenty of time to do so, but so far nothing.

Just make a thread with a good title and opening post where you present the issue you want to discuss, and your thoughts on it, and I'm sure it'll gain traction.
Hey Norwegian, i don't "completely misunderstand"!!! Please at least follow the genesis of this sub-topic so that you understand - Malcolm has, quite rightly, mentioned patriarchy a number of times in this thread, while i made a passing reference to feminism and was told i was off topic. And please stop telling me what to do! No wonder there aren't many women around here! Phew!
I think you misunderstood my point. I was suggesting that a wide ranging discussion of patriarchy was beyond the scope of this thread. I was not suggesting that a focused discussion of how patriarchal tendencies in our global culture are relevant to the Sogyal debacle is off topic.
Yep. OK. For the record, what i wrote re DKR "...and has put down feminists in earlier talks/writings." OK, end of story.

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by buddhagirl »

Punya wrote:
buddhagirl wrote:
Punya wrote:
This might help you understand DJKR's "bizarre" put down of liberals and feminists buddhagirl https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=26313.
Thanks i'll look at it tonight/ over the weekend. Though if it's just more preaching, shoving his peculiar, partly medieval world view down our throats, I shan't be impressed.
Entirely up to you. :smile: You said you were searching for information. If you start a new thread we can discuss "the peculiar, partly medieval world view" thingy too.
This is off topic, i know. The funny thing is that, while everyone's telling me to start a new thread, I was already entertaining an idea today for a General Dharma subject, 'Dharma Parenting, it's not as easy as you think'. Having recently stumbled across the Instagram posts of the son of a certain lama, today he's posted some rather surprising pics. Think wads of money, a splif (i believe that's the stoner terminology). Ok, i just felt like sharing that -- sometimes the apple does fall quite far from the tree, it seems.

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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by cky »

buddhagirl wrote:Having recently stumbled across the Instagram posts of the son of a certain lama, today he's posted some rather surprising pics. Think wads of money, a splif (i believe that's the stoner terminology). Ok, i just felt like sharing that -- sometimes the apple does fall quite far from the tree, it seems.
Gossip! :tongue:

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