Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

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Malcolm
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Malcolm »

Virgo wrote:
Norwegian wrote:Greg, it's really stupid behavior to post a spoiler from an episode that hasn't officially aired yet on HBO. The episode in question was a leak.
Honestly, you don't have him on ignore? What the FRACK!????!!! Tht is SO CRAZY FRACKIN' BULLSHIT that you don't/ end of the world.

Kevin


Well it looks like this thread has truly run its course.
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Grigoris
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Grigoris »

Malcolm wrote:You are definitely entitled to your opinion.
Indeed we are!
Well it looks like this thread has truly run its course.
Indeed it has! :smile:
Last edited by Grigoris on Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Virgo
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Virgo »

Malcolm wrote:

Well it looks like this thread has truly run its course.
It's just satire.

Virgo
Last edited by Virgo on Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tiago Simões
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Tiago Simões »

Malcolm wrote:Well it looks like this thread has truly run its course.
There's only so much criticism one can throw at Sogyals abuse, eventually it starts to get repetitive.

The question that was touched here, on Buddhist Fundamentalism on the other hand is a topic well deserving of its own thread, just not this one.
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Ayu
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Ayu »

This topic seems to be done so far.
It can be unlocked when new on-topic items have to be discussed.
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by emaho »

Here's another statement by the Dalai Lama:

phpBB [video]

...religious institution quite often, you see, spoilt, not caring (about) the real sort of message of religion, but rather use the name of religion. Religion used (as an) instrument for exploitation.
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by kirtu »

“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by dzogchungpa »

A message from OTR:
A PERSONAL MESSAGE FROM ORGYEN TOBGYAL RINPOCHE

Presently I am in Asia with Sogyal Rinpoche, to support him. The situation with his health is very serious. He has been diagnosed with cancer and had to have an operation to remove the tumours. Now his doctors are advising a course of chemotherapy as a follow up.

What I want to say to all Rigpa students is this—please do not break any more of your samayas. If a student breaks his/her samaya, it has a very harmful effect on the master’s life. I urge all of you therefore to practice the Narak Kong Shak and Heart of Vajrasattva confession prayers as much as possible. I am very concerned for Sogyal Rinpoche’s health and future. I hope you will all listen to what I say.

Orgyen Tobgyal
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Mantrik »

dzogchungpa wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:48 pm A message from OTR:
A PERSONAL MESSAGE FROM ORGYEN TOBGYAL RINPOCHE

Presently I am in Asia with Sogyal Rinpoche, to support him. The situation with his health is very serious. He has been diagnosed with cancer and had to have an operation to remove the tumours. Now his doctors are advising a course of chemotherapy as a follow up.

What I want to say to all Rigpa students is this—please do not break any more of your samayas. If a student breaks his/her samaya, it has a very harmful effect on the master’s life. I urge all of you therefore to practice the Narak Kong Shak and Heart of Vajrasattva confession prayers as much as possible. I am very concerned for Sogyal Rinpoche’s health and future. I hope you will all listen to what I say.

Orgyen Tobgyal
Do these Lamas have no sense of shame?
So his (real?) illness is not in part due his own karma ripening, it is those nasty followers of his who exposed his karma. Let's just reverse that statement:
If a master breaks his samaya, that has a very harmful effect on his students' lives.
Do these Lamas think people are so gullible as to accept that their master can do as he likes and his karma will not have consequences, but if his students complain about that karma, they are harming him?
Sheesh.
This is the sort of argument I came across in the cult which cannot be named here and is to me a clear affirmation that these Lamas think Westerners are gullible 'saviour seekers' who will believe whatever they are fed if it is backed up with a guilt trip about samaya.
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Tiago Simões
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Tiago Simões »

Guess I'll share this, although the person translating kinda surprises me, since she is so well spoken by Malcolm. (at least I think thats Sangye Khandro)

EDIT:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2ky4xoZWv4
phpBB [video]
Last edited by Tiago Simões on Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Toenail
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Toenail »

Video not working
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by dzogchungpa »

tiagolps wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:31 pm... at least I think thats Sangye Khandro ...

It is indeed Sangye Khandro.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by jkarlins »

Mantrik wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:14 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:48 pm A message from OTR:
A PERSONAL MESSAGE FROM ORGYEN TOBGYAL RINPOCHE

Presently I am in Asia with Sogyal Rinpoche, to support him. The situation with his health is very serious. He has been diagnosed with cancer and had to have an operation to remove the tumours. Now his doctors are advising a course of chemotherapy as a follow up.

What I want to say to all Rigpa students is this—please do not break any more of your samayas. If a student breaks his/her samaya, it has a very harmful effect on the master’s life. I urge all of you therefore to practice the Narak Kong Shak and Heart of Vajrasattva confession prayers as much as possible. I am very concerned for Sogyal Rinpoche’s health and future. I hope you will all listen to what I say.

Orgyen Tobgyal
Do these Lamas have no sense of shame?
So his (real?) illness is not in part due his own karma ripening, it is those nasty followers of his who exposed his karma. Let's just reverse that statement:
If a master breaks his samaya, that has a very harmful effect on his students' lives.
Do these Lamas think people are so gullible as to accept that their master can do as he likes and his karma will not have consequences, but if his students complain about that karma, they are harming him?
Sheesh.
This is the sort of argument I came across in the cult which cannot be named here and is to me a clear affirmation that these Lamas think Westerners are gullible 'saviour seekers' who will believe whatever they are fed if it is backed up with a guilt trip about samaya.
Totally agree. This very bad, and I was interested in OTR, too. Good to know where he stands I guess.

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Quay
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Quay »

dzogchungpa wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:44 pm
tiagolps wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:31 pm... at least I think thats Sangye Khandro ...

It is indeed Sangye Khandro.
She is simply translating here, not expressing her own opinion on the matter.
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by dzogchungpa »

Quay wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:20 pm
dzogchungpa wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:44 pm
tiagolps wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:31 pm... at least I think thats Sangye Khandro ...

It is indeed Sangye Khandro.
She is simply translating here, not expressing her own opinion on the matter.

Yes, did I suggest otherwise?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
emaho
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by emaho »

I find it extremely shameless and also revolting that these so called "Rinpoches" continue guilt tripping the students and blaming the victims, especially after the Dalai Lama has made it clear that speaking out against abuse does not constitute a breakage of Samaya.
Mantrik wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:14 pm This is the sort of argument I came across in the cult which cannot be named here and is to me a clear affirmation that these Lamas think Westerners are gullible 'saviour seekers' who will believe whatever they are fed if it is backed up with a guilt trip about samaya.
And, sadly, in so many cases they are right. In my own experience with people I meet in Buddhist centers and in online discussions most people who practice "Tibetan Buddhism" want to be brainwashed. They're so eager to create a fantasy world where everything is lovey-dovey that they practically beg to be brainwashed. And "Tibetan Buddhism" surely has the supply for that demand. (I say "Tibetan Buddhism" because I'm not so sure anymore if it has a lot to do with Vajrayana.) I'm only glad I had the luck to meet some teachers who were different.
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by Norwegian »

I think this post by Ratna on Vajracakra is very important to consider:
Ratna wrote:Lamas like to talk about Sogyal's students' supposed breach of samaya. I think more weight should be given to the position of the Lama with whom Sogyal himself has samaya as the disciple, namely HHDL (who, incidentally, is also the Guru of most every Lama outside Tibet).

https://imgur.com/a/hvprF

Last weekend in Rīga, HHDL had this to say on Sogyal:
"So Sogyal Rinpoche was disgraced recently in America and so, he may be learned but without any practice and experience of the teaching, therefore abusing disciples, deceiving them."

https://www.dalailama.com/videos/middli ... f-the-path, Day 1, starting 2:09:30.

R
Why is this important?

Because His Holiness the Dalai Lama is considered by Sogyal to be one of his principal gurus. So, we have Dzongsar Khyentse, Orgyen Tobgyal, and Khenpo Namdrol talk about supposedly violated samaya. But what about Sogyal's own guru talking about him?

HHDL has stated flat out that Sogyal, a disciple of his:

a. Was disgraced
b. May be learned
c. But is without any practice and experience of the teaching
d. And is abusing and deceiving his disciples

Here we have one of Sogyal's principal gurus pretty much saying straight out that his student has violated his samaya and is without any qualifications. It can't get more straight forward than this.
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by MiphamFan »

He also never gave any tantric empowerments and hence no real tantric samayas. I don't care about broader use of the term "samaya" in Tibetan culture not related to that.
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by philji »

Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche is usually controversial, sharp tongued and also very close to Sogyal Rinpoche. I think it is good to her the views of both sides...this would not stop me receiving teachings off OTR.
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Re: Very sad news: Letter to Sogyal Rinpoche / Abuse allegations

Post by crazy-man »

Sogyal Rinpoche receiving treatment for colon cancer
https://www.lionsroar.com/sogyal-rinpoc ... diagnosis/
A PERSONAL MESSAGE FROM SOGYAL RINPOCHE...
To all my friends and Dharma students
My retreat has been going very well, and has been extremely inspiring. At the same time, there is some news that I have been wanting to share with you, but hesitating slightly as I didn’t want to cause you unnecessary distress. Recent medical tests showed that I had developed colon cancer, and on September 14th I underwent an operation via key-hole surgery to remove two tumours in my colon. The operation went very well, but as a precaution against the possibility of the cancer spreading, my doctor has advised me to take a course of mild chemotherapy over a period of six months.
I wanted to break this news to you personally. But please don’t worry or be distressed: my doctor is exceptionally kind and competent, the best in his field, and I am in very good hands. I am gradually getting back into the rhythm of my retreat, and continue to place all my trust, without hesitation, in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
With love,
Sogyal Rinpoche
https://www.facebook.com/sogyal.rinpoch ... 3092153345

Khenchen Namdrol Rinpoche Speaks Out Over Public Criticism of Sogyal Rinpoche
https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/khenc ... al-ripoche
"Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche just shook his head when asked about Sogyal Lakar. Then he looked out of the window and remained silent for a minute. It was evident that he found the mention of Sogyal Lakar distasteful. Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche was born on a khandro day in 1930 in North Eastern Tibet, into a gö kar chang lo family lineage. He was recognised as the incarnation of Charong Drüpchen, by Dzigar Potrül Rinpoche. At the age of fifteen, he was sent to study at Gomang Gompa for seven years. He left at the age of twenty-two in order to become a wandering yogi. Kyabjé Düd’jom Rinpoche requested Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche to lead rTsa rLung and gTummo retreats, and to write commentaries on the gTummo and sPrul‘khor. These commentaries are now incorporated into the Düd’jom gTérsar lineage." - http://instadoor.online/post/BXlpulXgLS8

"HH ’Khordong gTéchen Tulku Chhi’mèd Rig’dzin Rinpoche. Rinpoche told people quite candidly as far back as 1976 that Sogyal Lakar was not the incarnation of gTértön Sogyal. Rinpoche said that this man was merely the son of a fabulously wealthy trading family who bought he fame for him. He was brought up as a little prince and was sent to the most expensive school in India. He was later sent to Cambridge University before launching his career as a cult guru. Since then he has perpetrated sexual abuse, violent physical abuse, and financial exploitation for three decades. Fear of denouncing him is now over - as the Dalai Lama has spoken out against him" - http://instadoor.online/post/BXkMlG1AXW3

"Chatral Rinpoche said that Sogyal Lakar was not the incarnation of gTertön Sogyal. Kyabjé Künzang Dorje Rinpoche told me this in person - in the presence of a dozen people. Chatral Sangye Dorje Rinpoche (བྱ་བྲལ་སངས་རྒྱས་རྡོ་རྗེ་ / bya bral sangs rGyas rDo rJe / Nondual Indestructible Freedom of Activity / 1913 – 2015) was a Nyingma Lama and a reclusive ngakpa known for his realisation and profound mastery of all disciplines. He was one of the few living disciples of Khenpo Ngak'chung and regarded as one of the most highly realised masters of the 20th Century. He studied with some of most renowned masters, including Kyabjé Düd’jom and the illustrious female Lama Sera Khandro Künzan Dékyong dBangmo. He was one of the primary lineage holders of the Longchen Nyingthig." - http://instadoor.online/post/BXlAnUPAH5W
https://www.reddit.com/r/vajrayana/comm ... inions_of/

How Can the Rigpa Community Process the Controversy?
http://howdidithappen.org/
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