Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

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michaelb
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Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by michaelb » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Two questions:

Does anyone know where I might find prayer flags printed with Jamgon Mipham's Wangdu prayer, the Great Cloud of Blessings that Magnetises all that appears and exists?

Second: in the now-locked thread about Sogyal, Malcolm said
Malcolm wrote:This is why my guru counseled me that is was best to practice new termas, and discouraged me from practicing older termas like Longchen Nyinthig, etc.
https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=680
I was thinking about this in relation to practising a yidam like Vajrakilaya. So, supposing one's yidam is Vajrakilaya, would it be better to practice a recent terma Phurba practice like that of Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok rather than Dudjom Tersar, Putri Regphung, and better to practice Putri Regphung rather than Namchak Pudri, and better to practice Namchak Pudri rather than Longchen Nyingthig's Vajrakilaya, and better to practice Longchen Nyingthig's Vajrakilaya rather than Jigme Lingpa's Phurba Gyu lug or Khon lug Phurba?

Surely, age isn't the only deciding factor? Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok's Phurba Gurkukma is quite short and unelaborate compared to, say, Namchak Pudri. Maybe that would be better as a main practice as it includes lots of other stuff?

Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

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Malcolm
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Re: Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by Malcolm » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:39 pm

michaelb wrote: I was thinking about this in relation to practising a yidam like Vajrakilaya. So, supposing one's yidam is Vajrakilaya, would it be better to practice a recent terma Phurba practice like that of Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok rather than Dudjom Tersar, Putri Regphung, and better to practice Putri Regphung rather than Namchak Pudri, and better to practice Namchak Pudri rather than Longchen Nyingthig's Vajrakilaya, and better to practice Longchen Nyingthig's Vajrakilaya rather than Jigme Lingpa's Phurba Gyu lug or Khon lug Phurba?

Surely, age isn't the only deciding factor? Khenpo Jigme Phuntsok's Phurba Gurkukma is quite short and unelaborate compared to, say, Namchak Pudri. Maybe that would be better as a main practice as it includes lots of other stuff?

Any thoughts would be gratefully received.
Any teaching you can receive directly from an authentic terton will have the most blessings, especially if they are still living. Any recent terma which has as short alineage as possible will have more blessings than a longer one. For example, these days people practice Putri Repung as the sadhana, on the basis of Namchag Putri, which has many instructions.

With respect to older termas, and traditions, the problem is mainly that accumulation of broken samaya in the lineage overtime. On the other hand, if you receive an older terma or teaching on Lamdre for example, from a highly realized person, then it is the same as receiving a fresh terma. However, it is axiomatic that a terton is a highly realized person.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

pael
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Re: Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by pael » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Malcolm wrote:
With respect to older termas, and traditions, the problem is mainly that accumulation of broken samaya in the lineage overtime. On the other hand, if you receive an older terma or teaching on Lamdre for example, from a highly realized person, then it is the same as receiving a fresh terma. However, it is axiomatic that a terton is a highly realized person.
How to know who is terton? Is The 41st Sakya Trizin terton?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

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Malcolm
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Re: Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by Malcolm » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:30 pm

pael wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
With respect to older termas, and traditions, the problem is mainly that accumulation of broken samaya in the lineage overtime. On the other hand, if you receive an older terma or teaching on Lamdre for example, from a highly realized person, then it is the same as receiving a fresh terma. However, it is axiomatic that a terton is a highly realized person.
How to know who is terton? Is The 41st Sakya Trizin terton?
HH Sakya Trizin, I have heard, has revealed some termas. But I have no confirmation of this for sure. He is the reincarnation of Apam Terton.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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ratna
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Re: Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by ratna » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:33 pm

michaelb wrote:Two questions:

Does anyone know where I might find prayer flags printed with Jamgon Mipham's Wangdu prayer, the Great Cloud of Blessings that Magnetises all that appears and exists?
Wangdu prayer flags

pemachophel
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Re: Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by pemachophel » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:42 pm

Loppon,

When you say your teacher (H.H. Kunzang Dechen Dorje?) told you it's better to practice newer terma because there is less chance the lineage has been damaged by broken samaya, are we talking about one's own particular lineage or all existent lineages of a terma cycle? IOW, if one lineage of a particular cycle has been damaged, does that affect all lineages of that cycle? Or, if one knows their particular lineage of a particular terma cycle has not been damaged by broken samaya, is one "good to go?" For instance, one's particular lineage of Lonchen Nyingthig since you (or your Teacher) used that as an example.

I ask this because one frequently hears Tibetans say that their particular lineage of this or that terma is "special," "pure," "unbroken," etc.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

michaelb
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Re: Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by michaelb » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:08 pm

Malcolm wrote:With respect to older termas, and traditions, the problem is mainly that accumulation of broken samaya in the lineage overtime. On the other hand, if you receive an older terma or teaching on Lamdre for example, from a highly realized person, then it is the same as receiving a fresh terma. However, it is axiomatic that a terton is a highly realized person.
Thanks. That makes sense. Distance from the source lessens the efficacy due to samaya damage etc. but the source can be renewed. Of course, every terma claims to be the most effective for this time but the freshest are most effective. So, Pudri Regphung is as effective as Phurba Gurkugma as the tertons were of the same generation and one would now receive the practice from one of the terton's students. Not sure if there are any newer Vajrakilaya termas with living tertons, maybe Ganor Rinpoche?
ratna wrote: Wangdu prayer flags
Thanks very much.

Terma
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Re: Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by Terma » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:39 pm

pemachophel wrote:Loppon,

When you say your teacher (H.H. Kunzang Dechen Dorje?) told you it's better to practice newer terma because there is less chance the lineage has been damaged by broken samaya, are we talking about one's own particular lineage or all existent lineages of a terma cycle? IOW, if one lineage of a particular cycle has been damaged, does that affect all lineages of that cycle? Or, if one knows their particular lineage of a particular terma cycle has not been damaged by broken samaya, is one "good to go?" For instance, one's particular lineage of Lonchen Nyingthig since you (or your Teacher) used that as an example.

I ask this because one frequently hears Tibetans say that their particular lineage of this or that terma is "special," "pure," "unbroken," etc.
Great question. I was also thinking to ask something along similar lines of thinking, but more-so a question of whether a particular terma or cycle can be more effective for us westerners because it has not been practiced widely here in the west yet, let's say? In this case then perhaps it is the time for this particular cycle's dissemination, even though it was discovered several generations ago? I know that the "closer" the lineage is the better but what about perhaps a lesser practiced cycle from a more well known terma lineage?

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Malcolm
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Re: Wangdu prayer flags, and new vs old termas

Post by Malcolm » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:36 pm

pemachophel wrote:Loppon,

When you say your teacher (H.H. Kunzang Dechen Dorje?) told you it's better to practice newer terma because there is less chance the lineage has been damaged by broken samaya, are we talking about one's own particular lineage or all existent lineages of a terma cycle?
He named Longchen Nyinthig, Chetsun Nyinthig, and so on as examples of older termas where the lineage has been weakened by broken samaya.
IOW, if one lineage of a particular cycle has been damaged, does that affect all lineages of that cycle?
Yes, I am pretty certain that is what he meant.
Or, if one knows their particular lineage of a particular terma cycle has not been damaged by broken samaya, is one "good to go?" For instance, one's particular lineage of Lonchen Nyingthig since you (or your Teacher) used that as an example.

I ask this because one frequently hears Tibetans say that their particular lineage of this or that terma is "special," "pure," "unbroken," etc.
He was pretty clear that the shorter the lineage the better.

Of course, this does not mean that these older teachings are worthless, of course not. But if you can receive teachings from an authentic terton, directly or from someone like Thrinley Norbu, Dzongsar, Chatral Rinpoche, Garab Doje, Khenpo Lodo Tsultrim, Khenpo Namdrol, etc., who received them directly, it is better.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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