Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Tirisilex
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:14 am

Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Tirisilex » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:51 am

I managed to find an Intensely Wrathful Black Hayagriva daily practice. I don't want to do the practice until I can get some advice on this. According to the site you do not need an empowerment to do this practice.. I'm just a little worried about doing a wrathful buddha practice. I'm kind of worried the wrathfulness will absorb into me.. If that is even possible. A little input would be nice.

User avatar
TharpaChodron
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:13 am
Location: California

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by TharpaChodron » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:10 am

Tirisilex wrote:I managed to find an Intensely Wrathful Black Hayagriva daily practice. I don't want to do the practice until I can get some advice on this. According to the site you do not need an empowerment to do this practice.. I'm just a little worried about doing a wrathful buddha practice. I'm kind of worried the wrathfulness will absorb into me.. If that is even possible. A little input would be nice.
I believe you do need an empowerment. I don't think the wrathfullness will absorb into you, but doing a practice that you aren't sure about and maybe even a little worried isn't a good idea. in my humble opinion.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18027
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Grigoris » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:55 am

Tirisilex wrote:I managed to find an Intensely Wrathful Black Hayagriva daily practice. I don't want to do the practice until I can get some advice on this. According to the site you do not need an empowerment to do this practice.. I'm just a little worried about doing a wrathful buddha practice. I'm kind of worried the wrathfulness will absorb into me.. If that is even possible. A little input would be nice.
Can you post a link to the site? You may not need an empowerment for a practice (especially if it does not have a self-visualistaion), but you definitely need a lung for the mantra and the sadhana.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Toenail
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:06 am

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Toenail » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:26 pm

Lung is a tibetan invention.

User avatar
heart
Posts: 4465
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by heart » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:03 pm

Toenail wrote:Lung is a tibetan invention.
And "no lung is necessary" is a Toenail invention. :smile:

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28574
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Malcolm » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:06 pm

Toenail wrote:Lung is a tibetan invention.

No, in fact it is grounded in how Vedic texts were passed on.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Toenail
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:06 am

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Toenail » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:33 pm

Wang is sufficient.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18027
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Grigoris » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:18 pm

Toenail wrote:Wang is sufficient.
A wang usually includes a lung of the mantra.
Lung is a tibetan invention.
And...?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Tirisilex
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:14 am

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Tirisilex » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:25 pm

This is the site link:
http://www.vajrayana.org/events/36/

The Sadhana to download is under the "Concise Practice (for download)" link.

Norwegian
Posts: 1458
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Norwegian » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:50 pm

Tirisilex wrote:This is the site link:
http://www.vajrayana.org/events/36/

The Sadhana to download is under the "Concise Practice (for download)" link.
You clearly don't read well enough.

It specifically opens the article by describing that the resident teachers of that center requested Dzongsar Khyentse to bestow the empowerment of this practice upon them and their students.

Then it goes on to speak of a retreat on this practice, which states that the retreat is open for all (who are interested in practicing that) and that the empowerment is not necessary for attending, but that the transmission of this practice will be given during the retreat.

So, you not only lack the empowerment but you also lack the actual transmission. And not to mention the teachings and instructions on the practice.

The PDF in question is intended for those who participated in that retreat or have received that specific practice.

To conclude: You are not qualified to practice this.

If you want to practice Vajrayana, you need to find a qualified teacher, and receive empowerment, transmission, and instruction from him or her. You can't practice from a book or a PDF. It doesn't work. You'll just end up confusing or hurting yourself.

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:57 pm

Tirisilex wrote:This is the site link:
http://www.vajrayana.org/events/36/

The Sadhana to download is under the "Concise Practice (for download)" link.
Why don't you just ask them directly? See:
http://www.vajrayana.org/contact/
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 1735
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Mantrik » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:21 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Tirisilex wrote:This is the site link:
http://www.vajrayana.org/events/36/

The Sadhana to download is under the "Concise Practice (for download)" link.
You clearly don't read well enough.

It specifically opens the article by describing that the resident teachers of that center requested Dzongsar Khyentse to bestow the empowerment of this practice upon them and their students.

Then it goes on to speak of a retreat on this practice, which states that the retreat is open for all (who are interested in practicing that) and that the empowerment is not necessary for attending, but that the transmission of this practice will be given during the retreat.

So, you not only lack the empowerment but you also lack the actual transmission. And not to mention the teachings and instructions on the practice.

The PDF in question is intended for those who participated in that retreat or have received that specific practice.

To conclude: You are not qualified to practice this.

If you want to practice Vajrayana, you need to find a qualified teacher, and receive empowerment, transmission, and instruction from him or her. You can't practice from a book or a PDF. It doesn't work. You'll just end up confusing or hurting yourself.
:good:
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Tirisilex
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:14 am

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Tirisilex » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:41 pm

Well it looks like I wont be doin the sadhana.. Is it safe to the Mantra alone? I have found many sites giving the Mantra of Hayagriva and I do believe that drawing the thangka painting has a lot of power.. I really need to get the empowerment of this practice but I live a long ways away from any Dharma Centers.

User avatar
Mantrik
Posts: 1735
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Contact:

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Mantrik » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:48 pm

Tirisilex wrote:Well it looks like I wont be doin the sadhana.. Is it safe to the Mantra alone? I have found many sites giving the Mantra of Hayagriva and I do believe that drawing the thangka painting has a lot of power.. I really need to get the empowerment of this practice but I live a long ways away from any Dharma Centers.
Google is your friend. Check out Garchen Rinpoche and Chogyal Namkhai Norbu whio give online live empowerments.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

Fortyeightvows
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 am

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Fortyeightvows » Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:33 pm

Why does the op want to propitiate hayagriva?

Tirisilex
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 1:14 am

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Tirisilex » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:15 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:Why does the op want to propitiate hayagriva?
I have a Mental Illness (Schizophrenia) and I have read that the Black Hayagriva protects people with Mental Illness.. I have been regularly practicing the Medicine Buddha. I just feel I could use Black Hayagrivas help as well.

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:19 pm

Tirisilex wrote:
Fortyeightvows wrote:Why does the op want to propitiate hayagriva?
I have a Mental Illness (Schizophrenia) and I have read that the Black Hayagriva protects people with Mental Illness.. I have been regularly practicing the Medicine Buddha. I just feel I could use Black Hayagrivas help as well.
Why don't you contact them? Maybe you can get some guidance on the matter, and possibly even the lung over the phone if they feel that's appropriate.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Soma999
Posts: 281
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Soma999 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:26 am

There are some situations that may be helpful to be approched with good therapists.

That does not contradict the fact we can be part of the healing and perform sadhana. But there are many mantras offered by the Buddha which may help you which does not requiere empowerment or the deep understanding of the structure of Vajrayana sadhana and philosophy, and still, are very powerful.

For exemple, the Heart sutra is very powerful, very deep. You can recite it on and on and on. Let your mind unite with the quality of this sutra, it may help you a lot. And medicine Buddha is great, and can move mountains. At the same time, have faith in the power of the deity, and feel how you would be if completly healed.

But please, consider maybe being helped, of course with "official therapist" but also some alternative therapy, considering you knock at the right door, can be very helpful.

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by jkarlins » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:14 am

It's probably hard to understand why people can be so hard line about getting permission for practices.

It's true, for this practice you need to be taught how to do it (lung or wang). If you're really interested, you can find a way to get this. It might be a little scary, or take some work to arrange for transportation etc, but it is possible.

There are lots of helpful, gentle practices that you can do without being given permission. Like mindfulness (shamatha).

But with that also, learning in person from a good teacher will be more powerful. This means it will help you more, and help you faster.


Jake

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 18027
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Wrathful Black Hayagriva

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:52 am

jkarlins wrote:It's probably hard to understand why people can be so hard line about getting permission for practices.
It's just the way Vajrayana rolls... If somebody wants to practice in the Vajrayana, they are just going to have to get used to this attitude.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Post Reply

Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: heart, Motova and 52 guests