Offering Torma's

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Terma
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Offering Torma's

Post by Terma » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:08 am

In one section of Chekawa's 7 Point's of Mind Training, one line in the 3rd point suggests offering a torma to obstructors and those who would harm you. For example, if one has a period of being plagued by sudden intense anger, other negative emotions, illness or other thangs that may be causing obstacles to one's practice.

Of course, ultimately these things are mostly down to our karmic ripenings and so-forth, but can offering torma's have a beneficial effect in these cases? A teaching I received along these lines also spoke on a more relative level about karmic debtors and how torma's can be offered to satisfy those we are indebted to.

Can we offer an obstructor's torma using a particular section of a liturgy that we have the lung for, such as the section at the beginning of a tsok/feast offering sadhana? Is it improper to only recite a certain portion from a text as opposed to the whole sadhana if we want to only perform the torma offering section as in this example?

Or is making an obstructor's torma, consecrating it, and offering it with a compassionate intent sufficient? I believe Kongtrul's commentary on the 7 points of mind training provides a very simple and succinct offering verse which I suppose would suffice as well?

Aside from placing a shal-dze (food offering torma) on my shrine, the only time I offer various other torma's is once every so often when I perform a tsok liturgy but it is time consuming with numerous torma's to be prepared. I was hoping to just simply make an obstructor's torma to offer.

So aside from some insight and thoughts on the practice of offering torma's for this purpose, I was looking for advice on whether this can be done outside of the context of a liturgy or sadhana.

Thanks in advance.

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jkarlins
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by jkarlins » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:01 am

Offering food or flowers is something I do regularly before practice. I don't do this with a special liturgy or anything.

Not sure about specific offerings like you're talking about.


Jake

Soma999
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by Soma999 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:18 pm

Sometime i offer torma directly, often in visualisation. I call upon all obstructors that may block a work, give them the torma, throw it away, and then visualise protective circle. Sometime i do it without any liturgy. Feel they are totaly satisfied, leave their angry mind, stop annoying you and others, and even start becoming useful.

But then it all depends on the kind of obstructors. Most of them, if not all comes from our own negative states.

In other tradition, before doing a ceremony, strong alcool is thrown as a present for disturbing spirits "take that, get drunk, and leave us alone". Approximativly.

Of course, it's better if someone show you because words can't convey everything.

Three part torma offering is something that may really interest you. First a torma is offered to the directional guardians, the second one to spirits who may be useful or not, the third one to the obstructors.

For exemple :
http://gyutofoundation.org/downloads/do ... umFPMT.pdf

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jkarlins
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by jkarlins » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:30 pm

Oh, one other thing. Mahasiddha.org can be very helpful if you want to sponsor prayers. This can be good for what you're talking about, I think, and also for protector offerings, amending offerings to the protectors, which we talked about before.

And this is not mutually exclusive- one could learn to make torma offerings and also sponsor prayers, if needed. I've used Mahasidda before, and I plan to use it this week, very good, very reputable.

Jake

Terma
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by Terma » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:05 pm

Thank you Soma and Jake for your input.

Varis
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by Varis » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:04 pm

jkarlins wrote:Oh, one other thing. Mahasiddha.org can be very helpful if you want to sponsor prayers. This can be good for what you're talking about, I think, and also for protector offerings, amending offerings to the protectors, which we talked about before.

And this is not mutually exclusive- one could learn to make torma offerings and also sponsor prayers, if needed. I've used Mahasidda before, and I plan to use it this week, very good, very reputable.

Jake
Are you supposed to put your own name in the dedication box when you "order" from there?

pemachophel
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by pemachophel » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:57 pm

You put the name of anyone, possibly including yourself, you wish the merit of the practice to be dedicated to. It is the name that will be read out for the participants to keep in mind while doing the practice.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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conebeckham
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by conebeckham » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:28 pm

I think that text (Seven Points of Mind Training? Lojong Don Dunma) specifically refers to offering a Changbu. You'd need to learn this from a qualified teacher; it's a common practice for monks, who use some lunch leftovers to make this offering.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Vasana
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by Vasana » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:42 pm

I don't really know much about torma but I know Sang offering is useful for this purpose too. If you feel or have indications that the obstructing beings are present you can also simply offer some wine and/or honey and consecrate and offer it simply if you know how to. (The type of offering may depend on who the beings are so I doubt wine and honey is appropriate 100% of the time) Mentally offering desirables and simply apologizing for any known or unknown physical, mental or verbal harm you may have caused them in the past or present can also go a long way if the particular obstructing beings are reasonable and your apology is sincere. Accumulating merit and transferring/dedicating it to them can also help.
"The changing cycle of joy and sorrow, like the changing seasons –
As a time of suffering will surely come around to me,
May I truly practice the sublime teachings."
- Dudjom Rinpoche

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conebeckham
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by conebeckham » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:56 pm

Sang is great for the purpose, yes.....
Also there is the practice of "Chu Tor" or Water torma offering.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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jkarlins
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Re: Offering Torma's

Post by jkarlins » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:45 am

pemachophel wrote:You put the name of anyone, possibly including yourself, you wish the merit of the practice to be dedicated to. It is the name that will be read out for the participants to keep in mind while doing the practice.
Thanks, Pema. Yes, I've put my own name, others' names, and my own name and my wife's on different occasions.

Jake

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