Without Requirement

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Tenma
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Without Requirement

Post by Tenma » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:14 pm

Does anyone know a practice that DOESN'T require an empowerment? I keep finding that every deity has an empowerment. Chenrezig requires one, Tara requires one, Manjushri requires one, Padmasambhava requires one, other deities require one, and even Shakyamuni Buddha requires one! How can one practice if they keep having this empowerment requirement? What's the point of helping sentient beings if you can't even get a single mantra or visualization to work all because of an empowerment????
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dzogchungpa
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by dzogchungpa » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:39 pm

This text explicitly says you can practice all of it, except for the self generation, without empowerment.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Tenma » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:51 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:This text explicitly says you can practice all of it, except for the self generation, without empowerment.
How does one do that? Without Om, Ah, Hum, Tam, and a mantra garland, how does one visualize the deity in front of them and what is the deity doing?
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climb-up
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by climb-up » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:15 am

Tenma wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:14 pm
Does anyone know a practice that DOESN'T require an empowerment? I keep finding that every deity has an empowerment. Chenrezig requires one, Tara requires one, Manjushri requires one, Padmasambhava requires one, other deities require one, and even Shakyamuni Buddha requires one! How can one practice if they keep having this empowerment requirement? What's the point of helping sentient beings if you can't even get a single mantra or visualization to work all because of an empowerment????
What Shakyamuni practice requires empowerment?
Sutric mantras do not require empowerment.
According to Lama Tsultrim Allione, Tara is so compassionate that you can do her practice even without empowerment.
Also, according to Karma Chagme, you can practice Chenreizig without empowerment.
I seem to remember there being some debate about this, but some people say that you can do most diety practices if you only use front generation. I have seen sadhanas of kurukulle that say this as well.

Obviously empowerment is preferable in any of the above cases.
Out of curiosity, in re: the
if you can't even get a single mantra or visualization to work all because of an empowerment
Why is it that you can't, or choose not to, get an empowerment?

Tenma
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Tenma » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:53 am

climb-up wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:15 am
Tenma wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:14 pm
Does anyone know a practice that DOESN'T require an empowerment? I keep finding that every deity has an empowerment. Chenrezig requires one, Tara requires one, Manjushri requires one, Padmasambhava requires one, other deities require one, and even Shakyamuni Buddha requires one! How can one practice if they keep having this empowerment requirement? What's the point of helping sentient beings if you can't even get a single mantra or visualization to work all because of an empowerment????
What Shakyamuni practice requires empowerment?
Sutric mantras do not require empowerment.
According to Lama Tsultrim Allione, Tara is so compassionate that you can do her practice even without empowerment.
Also, according to Karma Chagme, you can practice Chenreizig without empowerment.
I seem to remember there being some debate about this, but some people say that you can do most diety practices if you only use front generation. I have seen sadhanas of kurukulle that say this as well.

Obviously empowerment is preferable in any of the above cases.
Out of curiosity, in re: the
if you can't even get a single mantra or visualization to work all because of an empowerment
Why is it that you can't, or choose not to, get an empowerment?
Because there is no lama in the area and two, dharma is "witchcraft" here(by that, I mean rejected).
So I had to ask this as a member here has discouraged me from the practices of even basic deities.
But anyway, how does frontal visualization work? Light from the deity to you and other beings, or how does it work? Like let's say I was to do a simple Saraswati practice. How would that frontal be visualized?
Note: Since the site isn't quite working on certain links found on google, I'm unable to send the link on the Shakyamuni empowerment. All I can say is that it's in some forum here.
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

climb-up
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by climb-up » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:08 am

Tenma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:53 am
climb-up wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:15 am
Tenma wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:14 pm
Does anyone know a practice that DOESN'T require an empowerment? I keep finding that every deity has an empowerment. Chenrezig requires one, Tara requires one, Manjushri requires one, Padmasambhava requires one, other deities require one, and even Shakyamuni Buddha requires one! How can one practice if they keep having this empowerment requirement? What's the point of helping sentient beings if you can't even get a single mantra or visualization to work all because of an empowerment????
What Shakyamuni practice requires empowerment?
Sutric mantras do not require empowerment.
According to Lama Tsultrim Allione, Tara is so compassionate that you can do her practice even without empowerment.
Also, according to Karma Chagme, you can practice Chenreizig without empowerment.
I seem to remember there being some debate about this, but some people say that you can do most diety practices if you only use front generation. I have seen sadhanas of kurukulle that say this as well.

Obviously empowerment is preferable in any of the above cases.
Out of curiosity, in re: the
if you can't even get a single mantra or visualization to work all because of an empowerment
Why is it that you can't, or choose not to, get an empowerment?
Because there is no lama in the area and two, dharma is "witchcraft" here(by that, I mean rejected).
So I had to ask this as a member here has discouraged me from the practices of even basic deities.
But anyway, how does frontal visualization work? Light from the deity to you and other beings, or how does it work? Like let's say I was to do a simple Saraswati practice. How would that frontal be visualized?
Note: Since the site isn't quite working on certain links found on google, I'm unable to send the link on the Shakyamuni empowerment. All I can say is that it's in some forum here.
Whoa, dharma=witchcraft!?
Where do you live (if you don't mind me asking, and feel safe sharing)?

Front visualization is visualizaing the deity in front of you, like they were in space before you composed purely of light. There are different visualizations you can focus on during front generation during mantra, but I don't know if they differ from sadhana to sadhana.

Here is one green tara sadhana specifically for green tara, for those without empowerment. It contains 4 different options for contemplations during mantra recitation:
http://thubtenchodron.org/2009/10/tara- ... -extended/
I have seen a kurukulla sadhana on-line that describes front generation, but I can't find it right now.

Also, like I said above you can absolutely recite all sutric mantras.
You can also self-generate as tara and as Chenreizig (that might be somewhat controversial, but I cite two well respected sources above).

Lama Tsultrim Allione has described Tara practices on her Facebook page several times, connected with requests for mantra accumulation. She also does on-line Tara empowerments.
Also, ChNN gives DI into dzogchen several times a year through video streaming and, at the end of retreats (which are also live streamed) gives lung/permissions/empowerments for more practices than you can shake a stick at!

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Vasana
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Vasana » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:44 am

There are Chenrezig, Tara and Medicine Buddha practices that don't require empowerment.
Medicine Buddha Empowerment

Obtaining the Vajrayana empowerment (Tibetan: lung) for the practice from a qualified lama (meditation master) is also highly beneficial, but not required. Thrangu Rinpoche says "Medicine Buddha [practice] is a combination of what the Buddha taught about the Medicine Buddha in the sutras of the Medicine Buddha and in various tantras. Because it is connected with vajrayana, it is most appropriate to receive the empowerment to enhance the practice; but because it is also connected with the sutras, it is acceptable to do the practice without the empowerment as well."
http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/sad ... a.htm#Text
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Lingpupa
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Lingpupa » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:01 am

Kalu Rinpoche used to say that Chenrezi practice was ok for anyone as it is found in the sutras as well as the tantras. (And iirc he said the same about Tara.)
That being said, he of course would give Chenrezi empowerment, and also a "Yidam Chenrezi" empowerment with a relatively complex and beautiful visualization, which would require empowerment.
But I'm pretty sure the rightly popular, "usual" Chenrezi text by Thangtong Gyalpo could be used by anyone who felt so moved.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:42 am

Tenma wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:14 pm
Does anyone know a practice that DOESN'T require an empowerment? I keep finding that every deity has an empowerment. Chenrezig requires one, Tara requires one, Manjushri requires one, Padmasambhava requires one, other deities require one, and even Shakyamuni Buddha requires one! How can one practice if they keep having this empowerment requirement? What's the point of helping sentient beings if you can't even get a single mantra or visualization to work all because of an empowerment????
Some of these practices from FPMT do not require an empowerment, especially the Shakyamuni Buddha puja.
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5

jmlee369
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by jmlee369 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:28 am

I think we need to clarify what it means to do a deity practice. Reciting the names of buddhas and bodhisattvas, mantras, and dharanis are all practices that can be found in sutras and are widely used in Mahayana Buddhism. They are all ways of receiving blessings from deities. May I suggest you read the Medicine Buddha Sutra or the Universal Gateway chapter from the Lotus Sutra to see how the sutras describe ways to make connections with the Buddhas and bodhisattvas? For example, a common form of Tara practice involves preliminaries such as refuge and bodhicitta, then invoking Tara and retinue, performing the seven limb prayer, reciting the Praise to the 21 Taras multiple times, reciting the verses on the benfits of the praise, making requesting prayers, then dedication (one example here. While the order of the sections are a bit different, the core prayers are the standardised ones). For Shakyamuni Buddha, you can recite the praises known as gyun chak sum pa that begins "ton pa, chom den de, de zhin sheg pa, dra chom pa..." (The founder, bhagavan, tathagata, arhat...) All of this can be done by anyone.

Why then do we have empowerments and initiations for deities? This is because many common Mahayana deities also act as tantric yidams. The essential practice of tantra is deity yoga, where you generate yourself as the deity. In order to do this, you need the guidance of a vajra master and the initiation. This is what empowerments and initations allow you to do, tantric sadhanas involving self generation. But anything that does not involve self generation, you can do.

Miroku
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Miroku » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:49 am

This weekend on Friday, Garchen rinpoche will be giving white tara empowerment. It will probably be livestreamed. You can find more info on Garchen.net. Even though you usually cannot do self generation stage without empowerment, you can still do tara or chenrezig and visualise them infront of you sending lights of love and compassion towards you. But if I were you I'd probly do some sutra practices, like 35 buddhas, great for purification. Also if you wanna do tantra, find a teacher. Praying ot tara or doing 35 buddhas can help you with finding one.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

philji
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by philji » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:53 am

Treasury of Blessings Shakyamuni Sadhana composed by Mipham Rinpoche is a great practice you can do alone or with a group without empowerment. It is great if you can get the oral transmission at some point.
Here is an english version of the practice.
https://www.bodhicittasangha.org/wp-con ... Mipham.pdf

pemachophel
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by pemachophel » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:51 pm

Tenma,

Given your situation and it's limitations, I recommend you stay focused on Sutric Mahayana practices which do not require empowerment or lung/oral transmission. Having practiced at this level for some time, you will gather vast amounts of merit which will then allow you to practice Tantric Mahayana at a later date. No need to be in a rush. The practice of Mahayana Dharma is a marathon, not a sprint. Best to "make haste slowly." Build a really firm foundation of Sutric Mahayana and all else will take care of itself naturally.

Good luck & best wishes.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

Tenma
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Tenma » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:57 pm

climb-up wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:08 am
Tenma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:53 am
climb-up wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:15 am


What Shakyamuni practice requires empowerment?
Sutric mantras do not require empowerment.
According to Lama Tsultrim Allione, Tara is so compassionate that you can do her practice even without empowerment.
Also, according to Karma Chagme, you can practice Chenreizig without empowerment.
I seem to remember there being some debate about this, but some people say that you can do most diety practices if you only use front generation. I have seen sadhanas of kurukulle that say this as well.

Obviously empowerment is preferable in any of the above cases.
Out of curiosity, in re: the
Why is it that you can't, or choose not to, get an empowerment?
Because there is no lama in the area and two, dharma is "witchcraft" here(by that, I mean rejected).
So I had to ask this as a member here has discouraged me from the practices of even basic deities.
But anyway, how does frontal visualization work? Light from the deity to you and other beings, or how does it work? Like let's say I was to do a simple Saraswati practice. How would that frontal be visualized?
Note: Since the site isn't quite working on certain links found on google, I'm unable to send the link on the Shakyamuni empowerment. All I can say is that it's in some forum here.
Whoa, dharma=witchcraft!?
Where do you live
Texas, don't be surprised.
Ok, so can the ways that Tara is visualized be used in other deities or is that not kosher?
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Tenma
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Tenma » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:59 pm

Vasana wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:44 am
There are Chenrezig, Tara and Medicine Buddha practices that don't require empowerment.
Medicine Buddha Empowerment

Obtaining the Vajrayana empowerment (Tibetan: lung) for the practice from a qualified lama (meditation master) is also highly beneficial, but not required. Thrangu Rinpoche says "Medicine Buddha [practice] is a combination of what the Buddha taught about the Medicine Buddha in the sutras of the Medicine Buddha and in various tantras. Because it is connected with vajrayana, it is most appropriate to receive the empowerment to enhance the practice; but because it is also connected with the sutras, it is acceptable to do the practice without the empowerment as well."
http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/sad ... a.htm#Text
Huh, I thought they were required! I found lamas giving this, so i thought they needed empowerments as well.
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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jkarlins
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by jkarlins » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:34 pm

Tara and Chenrezig are safe bets. Some others done as front visualizations are ok too.

Jake

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:52 pm

Tenma wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:51 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:This text explicitly says you can practice all of it, except for the self generation, without empowerment.
How does one do that? Without Om, Ah, Hum, Tam, and a mantra garland, how does one visualize the deity in front of them and what is the deity doing?

Basically, you visualize Tara in front of you, take refuge, pray, imagine lights coming from her three places and touching you and all beings as a result of which you are all healed and blessed etc. then you recite the main prayer and mantra a lot, and then dedicate the merit and make aspirations etc.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Tenma » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:20 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:52 pm
Tenma wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:51 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:This text explicitly says you can practice all of it, except for the self generation, without empowerment.
How does one do that? Without Om, Ah, Hum, Tam, and a mantra garland, how does one visualize the deity in front of them and what is the deity doing?

Basically, you visualize Tara in front of you, take refuge, pray, imagine lights coming from her three places and touching you and all beings as a result of which you are all healed and blessed etc. then you recite the main prayer and mantra a lot, and then dedicate the merit and make aspirations etc.
What does one do with Tam?
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Terma
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by Terma » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:51 am

pemachophel wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:51 pm
Tenma,

Given your situation and it's limitations, I recommend you stay focused on Sutric Mahayana practices which do not require empowerment or lung/oral transmission. Having practiced at this level for some time, you will gather vast amounts of merit which will then allow you to practice Tantric Mahayana at a later date. No need to be in a rush. The practice of Mahayana Dharma is a marathon, not a sprint. Best to "make haste slowly." Build a really firm foundation of Sutric Mahayana and all else will take care of itself naturally.

Good luck & best wishes.
I think this might be the best piece of advice for you. Practices such as lojong (mind training) for example, can really help to accumulate merit. I would also suggest to go with the present conditions and don't forget to make strong aspirations and prayers. This will help!

Good luck.

climb-up
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Re: Without Requirement

Post by climb-up » Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:40 pm

Tenma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:53 am
Because there is no lama in the area and two, dharma is "witchcraft" here(by that, I mean rejected).
Tenma wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:57 pm
Texas, don't be surprised.
Oh.
I know it's big so you might not be able to get around everywhere, and I don't know to what extent you need to hide your associations, but there are definitely at least some vajrayana practitioners around.

If it needs to be 'on the down low' it might be possible to take a day trip somewhere and (if necessary) tell people you're doing something else (meeting a friend, picking up an order, ...going to church!?). I know some people either in or from areas where non-"christian" stuff is verboten (some practicing fairly dark stuff too, ...not Buddhism!) and there are DEFINITELY sneaky tricks.
Here's one place, in Austin:
http://www.palri.org/home.html
It looks like they have regular practices, and regular visiting lama teachings (I can't tell from a quick look at the page if the main lama lives there or not).

Here's a list of some vajrayana centers in Texas (the page also has tabs for Mahayana and Therevada centers):
http://www.commonsenseconcept.com/vajra ... texas.html
If you're willing to share where in Texas you are, some one here might have some inside info. on where you can go.

Also, as has been mentioned, at the bare minimum you should keep an on-line eye on:
  • Chogyal Namkhai Norbu
  • Garchen Rinpoche
  • Lama Tsultrim Allione
All three are deep, powerful teachers and all three of them perform empowerments via live stream (Garchen Rinpoche has said it is even possible to use recordings, ...that is controversial, but its something to be aware of).

If you feel drawn to vajrayana there are (as has been demonstrated here) practices that you can do without empowerment, but there is also no reason why you can't receive empowerments.

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