smcj wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:23 pm
Suffice it here to say that DJKR was trying to make a point with his initial FB post regarding Sogyal R.
What exactly, smcj, do you feel is the point that DJKR is trying to make? Right now we're dancing around words and explanations, and I think we're experiencing a serious mis-step in communication. Malcolm rejects DJKR's "point," and you say that there's some sort of "point" that DJKR was trying to make that is worth listening to, and that as Westerners we're having a hard time accepting. Could you please be more clear and elucidate precisely what you feel that point is? Until you do, I'm afraid this dance of misunderstanding will continue. DJKR's post was very large, and in various other threads people have agreed and disagreed with various points. To try to condense it all into one nebulous "point" without specifically saying what you feel that point is, for all we know Malcolm is disagreeing with one section of that post, and you're agreeing with a totally different section.
As far as my opinion goes, if a "lama" sexually abuses his or her student and creates serious suffering in them, they are not a qualified master, and they are not a valid source of guru yoga or blessings. Trying to draw blessings from them is like trying to draw water from an iron beam. I think everyone here is more or less in agreement on this point. What do you feel DJKR has to offer regarding this perspective that we are not seeing?
If I had to make my best guess, I feel like you are trying to say that, from an ultimate perspective, there is no bad or good, no negative acts and positive acts, and that in order to enter an authentic relationship with a guru, we have to put aside all our ideas of bad and good, because while we still maintain these dualities, constantly judging and criticizing, we're trapped and will continue to be trapped in the relative mode of thinking. Then, you are trying to point out that, because most of us have gurus, since we're sitting here criticizing a lama for acting negatively, we're pretty terrible practitioners still caught up in judgment rather than trying to transcend all relative points of view. We should be spending our time purifying our vision and seeing everything as the mandala/spontaneously liberated/etc. rather than judging and criticizing. Is that accurate?
If that is indeed your point, the Dalai Lama speaks pretty clearly about that here: https://info-buddhism.com/Questioning_A ... _Lama.html
I can't think of someone more qualified to speak on the topic than His Holiness, and he is most certainly not a Westerner rejecting Christianity.
Not to mention, on numerous times I've had some of my (Tibetan) lamas tell us very directly that we Westerners are very gullible and will often just take anyone as a teacher, then mistakenly think that we should just accept everything the lama does due to devotion and pure vision. They then went on to say westerners need to think more critically.