The DJKR Topic

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Locked
User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25528
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:13 pm

smcj wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:25 pm
Of these three, it is only the third definition, enthusiasm, which is really indicated by the term in its Buddhist sense.
Thanks. Makes sense.
So, what does it mean to you to have enthusiastic interest in the Dharmakāya?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
smcj
Posts: 5480
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by smcj » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:21 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:13 pm
smcj wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:25 pm
Of these three, it is only the third definition, enthusiasm, which is really indicated by the term in its Buddhist sense.
Thanks. Makes sense.
So, what does it mean to you to have enthusiastic interest in the Dharmakāya?
My partial understand is that the Dharmakaya spontaneously manifests Buddha Activity which only benefits, it does so in a way that is meaningful, the benefits are not subject to the suffering of change, and the benefits are not terminated by death.

This understanding comes from blending some private conversations with the last chapter of the Uttaratantra. There’s more to the idea than than that for me, but that much has a okay chance to be vetted someday. The rest could just be me being carried away.

It also seems to describe my Lama. Kinda inspires interest and enthusiasm.
Last edited by smcj on Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
*****
Once in a while you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Robert Hunter

User avatar
smcj
Posts: 5480
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by smcj » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:40 pm

Devotion in tibetan = MUGU = LONGING = I WANT THIS, HAVING NO ARROGANCE.
You don’t know the next steps so you come with the quality of no arrogance. I so want what I see. I come naked, no pretence. I need what you have. Humble, open-hearted, interested longing. Translated from Tibetan, DEVOTION = LONGING WITH NO ARROGANCE
:good:
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
*****
Once in a while you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Robert Hunter

TaTa
Posts: 366
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:15 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by TaTa » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:09 pm

Yeo, there has been a new post by DK which will probably add 12 more pages to this group

User avatar
Quay
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Quay » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:25 pm

TaTa wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:09 pm
Yeo, there has been a new post by DK which will probably add 12 more pages to this group
:tongue:

You mean this one?
There have been many inquiries about the upcoming Rigdzin Sogdrup and Dorje Nyingpo empowerments at Tashiding in West Sikkim on 16-22 November. Since those are treasure teachings in the Nyingma tradition revealed by Lhatsun Namkha Jigme, they are certainly tantric teachings.

Since these teachings will be conferred by a Tibetan “feudalist” who promotes “rape culture”, whom Loppon Yudron Wangmo considers to be “disrespectful to women”, and whom Lama Tsultrim Allione, founder of Tara Mandala finds “disgusting and disrespectful unfortunately not surprising and definitely not funny,” I strongly urge you, for your own sake, not to come to Sikkim. As one author writes: These “lamaist teachings” are just “an androcentric, misogynistic cult, not a legitimate religion. Lama Dzongsar has just hammered another nail in their own coffins.”

In the words of author Ian Baker: “If enlightenment is arriving at a stranger’s door in a G-string and with a live fish protruding from your mouth, as Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche amusingly implies, maybe we are better off with the 18th century Western ‘Enlightenment’ that overthrew the tyranny of religious institutions and opened a new era of intellectual inquiry and scientific discovery.”

Discoveries which, I might add, have ushered in our present Golden Age of ecological, political and psychological glory in the west.
I
n sum, as these and many other notable commentators make clear, it is increasingly self-evident that tantric teachings are for backward, misogynist, male chauvinist, narrow-minded Tibetans, and I therefore strongly discourage people from attending the upcoming Sikkim teachings.

Aside from these important considerations, you should also know that west Sikkim is remote, hard to reach, and with minimal facilities, housing or amenities like medical care.
Bless me and all phantom beings like me
That we may extract the essence of the generation and perfection stages.

– Patrul Rinpoche, Words of My Perfect Teacher.

emaho
Posts: 792
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:33 pm

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by emaho » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:43 pm

He really enjoys to :stirthepot:
"Do yourself a favor and get out of Samsara!" Dudjom Rinpoche, Counsels From My Heart

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by jkarlins » Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:56 pm

I liked this one, I thought it was funny

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25528
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:00 pm

Powerful bliss wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:59 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:17 pm
smcj wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:07 pm

What about the Dharmakaya is worthy of devotion?

I’m assuming the connotation of adoration or love is a correct translation.

Depend on what Tibetan word. The Tibeten word most commonly translated as devotion is mos gus, or gus pa.

Mos gus is combined term that does not have a real Sanskrit term underneath it. It combined from mos pa and gus pa.

Mos pa only translates adhimokṣa and its various forms. It means confidence or interest. Gus pa translate two terms primarily, ādara and satkṛtya, both of which mean to pay respect.

Thus the terms we usually see translated as "devotion" really mean, "confident interest" and "respect".

Thus, when we see the term "devotion" in a Tibetan Buddhist book, we should understand that it really has nothing to do with the English history of the word, which really means "formal vow." Devotion means "love, loyalty, or enthusiasm for a person, activity, or cause:" Of these three, it is only the third definition, enthusiasm, which is really indicated by the term in its Buddhist sense. This does not bar us from having love for or loyalty to our gurus, teachers, etc. But just to be clear, we should expect love from our gurus, since the texts on the qualities of the guru all describe the guru as loving, and they in return should expect our interest and respect.
Interesting perspective Malcolm. I had receive this explanation about the tibetan word devotion in tibetan. I am curious to know your take on it:

Devotion in tibetan = MUGU = LONGING = I WANT THIS, HAVING NO ARROGANCE.
You don’t know the next steps so you come with the quality of no arrogance. I so want what I see. I come naked, no pretence. I need what you have. Humble, open-hearted, interested longing. Translated from Tibetan, DEVOTION = LONGING WITH NO ARROGANCE.
The term "devotion" is not a terribly accurate translation of mos gus. But we use it because it has become customary.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25528
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:13 pm

jkarlins wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:56 pm
I liked this one, I thought it was funny
There is nothing funny about it at all. It's quite sad really.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by jkarlins » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:15 pm

ok, saying something isn't funny usually works

passel
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by passel » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:23 pm

He’s embarrassed. He’s entrenching- he needs a boundary-appropriate hug. I feel bad for him.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

User avatar
Quay
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Quay » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:32 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:13 pm
jkarlins wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:56 pm
I liked this one, I thought it was funny
There is nothing funny about it at all. It's quite sad really.
He seems to have upped it to a new level of...something. He's now naming names of some people it seems he's not pleased with, and two of them are Nyingma Lamas, at least one of which was his student or still is, and it seems he's engaging in the same behavior he accused the students of SR of doing.

Or in other words, it is possible to a least read a kind of breathtaking hypocrisy in a Nyingma Lama publicly calling out by name two other Nyingma Lamas who are or at least were his students for being upset with him for calling out the students of a Nyingma Lama.

And I say "seems" because I can't really go by anything but what I read on FB and have to rely on the words and try to understand their meaning as best as I can.
Last edited by Quay on Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bless me and all phantom beings like me
That we may extract the essence of the generation and perfection stages.

– Patrul Rinpoche, Words of My Perfect Teacher.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15182
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:43 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:13 pm
jkarlins wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:56 pm
I liked this one, I thought it was funny
There is nothing funny about it at all. It's quite sad really.
I think it's funny, but then again I don't expect everybody to agree with (or understand) my sense of humor.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25528
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:47 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:43 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:13 pm
jkarlins wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:56 pm
I liked this one, I thought it was funny
There is nothing funny about it at all. It's quite sad really.
I think it's funny, but then again I don't expect everybody to agree with (or understand) my sense of humor.
So you think it is funny that a high lama publicly targets people and other lamas for ridicule? Especially, ridiculing these women for being concerned about the promotion of rape culture attitude?
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
florin
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:05 pm

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by florin » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:48 pm

I find this quite distasteful.
He probably hopes that he can challenge people's views and attitudes to achieve some positive growth but unfortunately all he manages to do is upset everyone.
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15182
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:51 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:47 pm
So you think it is funny that a high lama publicly targets people and other lamas for ridicule? Especially, ridiculing these women for being concerned about the promotion of rape culture attitude?
It only counts as ridicule if you take it as a serious assault on one's sense of self.

Rape requires lack of consent
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25528
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:57 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:51 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:47 pm
So you think it is funny that a high lama publicly targets people and other lamas for ridicule? Especially, ridiculing these women for being concerned about the promotion of rape culture attitude?
It only counts as ridicule if you take it as a serious assault on one's sense of self.

Rape requires lack of consent
So you don't accept that power differentials make consent impossible?

As far as ridicule goes, it has nothing to do with an assault on one's sense of self, it means "the subjection of someone or something to contemptuous and dismissive language or behavior."

In other words, it is pretty clear Dzongsar is contemptuous of those people who found his "joke" something that promoted abuse of women. It seems to me the one feeling their sense of self is being assaulted is the writer of the ridicule and not his targets.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
jkarlins
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:58 am
Location: Amesbury, MA USA

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by jkarlins » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:02 pm

ok arguing time is here- I'm going for a walk. Enjoy your time my electronic friends

this life is precious and wonderful

oh my sunday

Jake

User avatar
Virgo
Global Moderator
Posts: 2478
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Location: Globe

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Virgo » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:25 pm

jkarlins wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:02 pm
ok arguing time is here- I'm going for a walk. Enjoy your time my electronic friends

this life is precious and wonderful

oh my sunday

Jake
Mysogyny, patriarchy, racism, all manner of unfair treatments, these things are real and it is our job as bodhisattvas to speak out against them. We are constantly making connections with beings, don't we want those connections to be positive connections? We cannot cow out, we must help the world, we must help sentient beings, we cannot abandon them.

When I was a young Catholic we used to say a prayer and one line, addressing God said "And deliver us from evil, amen". I said that line many times. There is no God to deliver us from evil, there is just us.

The message from DKR is disturbing. But then again, I never liked him to be honest.

Kevin

User avatar
treehuggingoctopus
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:26 pm
Location: Mudhole? Slimy? My home, this is.

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:33 pm

The "novelty" of such posts has worn off, and so has their shock value. He continues to offend those already offended, and endear himself to those who already cherish his crazy-wisdom-on-FB shtick.

Which is a massive pity.

The transmission of Vajrayana to the West, the interpenetration of Vajrayana and its traditional cultural contexts, the relationship between Buddhadharma, its traditional host cultures and the 21st century globalised West -- all these are sensitive topics that urgently need all the wisdom and knowledge and experience we can muster. Pretty much each passing day brings further evidence that all is not going well, and we clearly need to talk these things through -- and do it tactfully, with appropriate care. Stirring and (increasingly dubious) attempts at "transgressive" humour will not do.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: heart, marcofromM, pemachophel, Sumeru and 56 guests