The DJKR Topic

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
Locked
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7457
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:40 pm

Quay wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:32 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:13 pm
jkarlins wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:56 pm
I liked this one, I thought it was funny
There is nothing funny about it at all. It's quite sad really.
He seems to have upped it to a new level of...something. He's now naming names of some people it seems he's not pleased with, and two of them are Nyingma Lamas, at least one of which was his student or still is, and it seems he's engaging in the same behavior he accused the students of SR of doing.

Or in other words, it is possible to a least read a kind of breathtaking hypocrisy in a Nyingma Lama publicly calling out by name two other Nyingma Lamas who are or at least were his students for being upset with him for calling out the students of a Nyingma Lama.

And I say "seems" because I can't really go by anything but what I read on FB and have to rely on the words and try to understand their meaning as best as I can.

The post seems juvenile to me. I don't understand what it is other than some fairly base level shit talk.

Honestly it's the kind of thing I'd expect to see on well....a bad day on DW; rather than a communication from a well-known Lama, lol. It basically sounds like he's saying "if you think there's an possibility I'm in the wrong about the Sogyal thinkg, then don't show up to my teachings".

It's actually a reasonable request, and any astute Vajrayana student would already know not to go take an empowerment from someone they have doubts about, but the tone the message is delivered in seems petulant to me.

It's interesting to see Vajrayana culture (or parts of it) come up against notions of accountability it's not used to..wonder where this will end.
treehuggingoctopus wrote:The transmission of Vajrayana to the West, the interpenetration of Vajrayana and its traditional cultural contexts, the relationship between Buddhadharma, its traditional host cultures and the 21st century globalised West -- all these are sensitive topics that urgently need all the wisdom and knowledge and experience we can muster. Pretty much each passing day brings further evidence that all is not going well, and we clearly need to talk these things through -- and do it tactfully, with appropriate care. Stirring and (increasingly dubious) attempts at "transgressive" humour will not do.
:good: :good:
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25498
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:43 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:33 pm
The "novelty" of such posts has worn off, and so has their shock value. He continues to offend those already offended, and endear himself to those who already cherish his crazy-wisdom-on-FB shtick.
Well, he has massively upped the ante by calling out Lama Tsultrim Allione publicly. It seems to me he wants this conflict to increase and spread, not decrease and dwindle.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7457
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:46 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:43 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:33 pm
The "novelty" of such posts has worn off, and so has their shock value. He continues to offend those already offended, and endear himself to those who already cherish his crazy-wisdom-on-FB shtick.
Well, he has massively upped the ante by calling out Lama Tsultrim Allione publicly. It seems to me he wants this conflict to increase and spread, not decrease and dwindle.
I can't even figure out what the endgame of thing like that is, the post almost seemed impulsive to me.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Quay
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Quay » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:47 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:33 pm
...The transmission of Vajrayana to the West, the interpenetration of Vajrayana and its traditional cultural contexts, the relationship between Buddhadharma, its traditional host cultures and the 21st century globalised West -- all these are sensitive topics that urgently need all the wisdom and knowledge and experience we can muster. Pretty much each passing day brings further evidence that all is not going well, and we clearly need to talk these things through -- and do it tactfully, with appropriate care. Stirring and (increasingly dubious) attempts at "transgressive" humour will not do.
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:40 pm
...It's interesting to see Vajrayana culture (or parts of it) come up against notions of accountability it's not used to..wonder where this will end.
I think these are indeed central issues that should be addressed with all possible care. The accounts by Indian masters and others when Dharma first came to Tibet make for interesting reading. Lots of talk about red-faced barbarians, their unsuitability for Dharma, etc. And yet the transmission did happen in spite of all the cultural turbulence.

For my part I think the Dharma in general and Vajrayana in particular is taking root in the west and as always in this matter the Dharma needs to be distinguished from the culture. Much like after having crossed a desert on a yak & arrived at a new land it makes no sense to continue with the yak if there is a paved road right in front of you and a Camaro with at least half a tank of gas.
Bless me and all phantom beings like me
That we may extract the essence of the generation and perfection stages.

– Patrul Rinpoche, Words of My Perfect Teacher.

User avatar
treehuggingoctopus
Posts: 1409
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:26 pm
Location: Mudhole? Slimy? My home, this is.

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:48 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:43 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:33 pm
The "novelty" of such posts has worn off, and so has their shock value. He continues to offend those already offended, and endear himself to those who already cherish his crazy-wisdom-on-FB shtick.
Well, he has massively upped the ante by calling out Lama Tsultrim Allione publicly. It seems to me he wants this conflict to increase and spread, not decrease and dwindle.
Sure. More and more stirring.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

User avatar
Quay
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Quay » Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:50 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:43 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:33 pm
The "novelty" of such posts has worn off, and so has their shock value. He continues to offend those already offended, and endear himself to those who already cherish his crazy-wisdom-on-FB shtick.
Well, he has massively upped the ante by calling out Lama Tsultrim Allione publicly. It seems to me he wants this conflict to increase and spread, not decrease and dwindle.
And Loppon Yudron Wangmo (who posts here and on FB but is on social media holiday until mid-December.) She received her teaching authorization from Lama Pema Dorje, a Dudjom lineage holder, which just seems to make it even more of a conflict increasing post.
Bless me and all phantom beings like me
That we may extract the essence of the generation and perfection stages.

– Patrul Rinpoche, Words of My Perfect Teacher.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25498
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:10 pm

Quay wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:50 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:43 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:33 pm
The "novelty" of such posts has worn off, and so has their shock value. He continues to offend those already offended, and endear himself to those who already cherish his crazy-wisdom-on-FB shtick.
Well, he has massively upped the ante by calling out Lama Tsultrim Allione publicly. It seems to me he wants this conflict to increase and spread, not decrease and dwindle.
And Loppon Yudron Wangmo (who posts here and on FB but is on social media holiday until mid-December.) She received her teaching authorization from Lama Pema Dorje, a Dudjom lineage holder, which just seems to make it even more of a conflict increasing post.
Yes, and Ian Baker, sigh, all of whom are my friends. It also occurs to me that the timing of this, while LTA is traveling in Bhutan, is not accidental.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15179
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:11 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:57 pm
So you don't accept that power differentials make consent impossible?
There are power differentials in every single interpersonal relationship, does that mean that all instances of sexual activity are rape?
As far as ridicule goes, it has nothing to do with an assault on one's sense of self, it means "the subjection of someone or something to contemptuous and dismissive language or behavior."

In other words, it is pretty clear Dzongsar is contemptuous of those people who found his "joke" something that promoted abuse of women. It seems to me the one feeling their sense of self is being assaulted is the writer of the ridicule and not his targets.
I think you'll find that everybody involved is acting from the position of ego. EVERYBODY.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25498
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:14 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:11 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:57 pm
So you don't accept that power differentials make consent impossible?
There are power differentials in every single interpersonal relationship, does that mean that all instances of sexual activity are rape?
We are specifically talking about the power differential between professionals and their clients.
Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:11 pm
I think you'll find that everybody involved is acting from the position of ego. EVERYBODY.
Really, it is "ego" to find something like Dzongsar's joke repellant, something which reinforces the idea that gurus should have right to sexually abuse their students?
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3716
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Adamantine » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:14 pm

Well one old post of DJKR's which I happened to appreciate and
which has generally influenced my conduct on FB, contains some advice I believe to be quite valuable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lionsr ... oners/amp/


Recently, he appears to be
largely ignoring his own advice in this regard.
Also, the Vajrayana teachings are “hidden” in the sense that their meaning is not apparent to someone who has not received the appropriate teachings. It’s like a foreign language. Because some of the imagery and symbolism can seem strange or even violent to the uninitiated, it’s generally recommended to keep it hidden so that it doesn’t put off newer practitioners, who might develop wrong views about the Buddhist path in general and the Vajrayana path in particular.
Don’t create disharmony: Try to be the one who brings harmony into the sangha community with your online chatter, instead of trouble and disputes.
Always be mindful of your motivation: Please do not attempt to display “crazy wisdom” behaviors online, just inspire others to have a good heart. If you think you are posting something out of compassion, try first to make sure you are doing no harm. Whenever you can’t let go of the itch to post something, make sure that it helps whoever who reads it and the Dharma.
Whether this corresponds to hypocrisy or skillful means will inevitably be debated. It's hard for me at the moment to recognize skill at play. However, some Vajra siblings I respect somehow do. . . This is a challenging mess.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25498
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:15 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:14 pm
Well one old post of DJKR's which I happened to appreciate and
which has generally influenced my conduct on FB, contains some advice I believe to be quite valuable.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lionsr ... oners/amp/


Recently, he appears to be
largely ignoring his own advice in this regard.
Also, the Vajrayana teachings are “hidden” in the sense that their meaning is not apparent to someone who has not received the appropriate teachings. It’s like a foreign language. Because some of the imagery and symbolism can seem strange or even violent to the uninitiated, it’s generally recommended to keep it hidden so that it doesn’t put off newer practitioners, who might develop wrong views about the Buddhist path in general and the Vajrayana path in particular.
Don’t create disharmony: Try to be the one who brings harmony into the sangha community with your online chatter, instead of trouble and disputes.
Always be mindful of your motivation: Please do not attempt to display “crazy wisdom” behaviors online, just inspire others to have a good heart. If you think you are posting something out of compassion, try first to make sure you are doing no harm. Whenever you can’t let go of the itch to post something, make sure that it helps whoever who reads it and the Dharma.
Whether this corresponds to hypocrisy or skillful means will inevitably be debated. It's hard for me at the moment to recognize skill at play. However, some Vajra siblings I respect somehow do. . . This is a challenging mess.

Seems like Dzongsar should follow his own advice and put a sock in it.

Basically, Dzongsar has apprently decided to start a culture war, since he finds Western Liberal Values very frustrating. Then of course he will find ample support from online sycophants.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15179
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:17 pm

Somehow I don't think the Vajrayana is in any danger at all.

Two years from now it will all be an insignificant memory. My hope is that at the very least people will come out of this with a higher level of discernment regarding their choice of teacher and an ability to actually apply the advice about choosing teachers that so many great masters have provided us with. Maybe with a slightly deeper understanding of samaya and empowerment too. That's if they get over (or at least correctly utilise) their initial emotional responses.
Last edited by Grigoris on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25498
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:20 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:17 pm
Somehow I don't think the Vajrayana is in any danger at all.
Of course it isn't. This idea that Vajrayāna is being threatened by liberal values, or that Vajrayāna is inherently incompatible with such values is just hysterical and reactionary sturm and drung coming from Dzongsar.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15179
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:24 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:14 pm
We are specifically talking about the power differential between professionals and their clients.
Professionals and clients? Somehow I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

Regardless: All relationships include power imbalances.

Consent is a recognition of the power imbalance and a willingness to overlook or work with it. Not all power imbalances lead to coercion.
Really, it is "ego" to find something like Dzongsar's joke repellant, something which reinforces the idea that gurus should have right to sexually abuse their students?
Personally I don't think that is his point, but you are free to interpret it any way you wish (as we all are).

For me it is not the lauding of liberal values which is the problem but the histrionics surrounding the discussion and the need to allocate blame on others without judging our own behaviour first and foremost. For example: Everybody talks about nasty Sogyal and his teenage consort (and justifiably so), but nobody asks: "WTF is up with the parents?" If some dude came and asked me for my teenage daughter as his sex slave, I personally would punch him repeatedly in the face until blood starting come out of his eyes. Now if the parents were living in life-threatening poverty in Bangladesh and they had to sell their daughter to ensure the survival of their family, okay, I can understand that (to an extent), but...

And, yes, repulsion and attraction all come from ego. Where else do they come from?
Last edited by Grigoris on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 25498
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Malcolm » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:36 pm

Greg, I think you being deliberately obtuse.

Dzongsar posted something he thought was funny. Many, many women called him out for his "joke." You can argue about the merits of their discomfort if you like. You can claim that being subject to ongoing sexual harrassment for decades and years is just "ego" if one finds it uncomfortable and reacts with shock when a high lama argues that gurus have the right to disrespect their students in any capricious fashion they choose. But then you would be in the wrong.

Anyway, he removed the post. He was so pissed about taking it down, however, he complained about it during his recent teachings in Mexico City. Now, he takes this occasion, in announcing his teachings in Sikkim, to call out one of the leading western women teachers?

Are you really that ok with sexism and abuse of women? I guess your anarchist commitment to leveling hierarchy ends with what you perceive to be your samaya vows.

Falling back on the old "it's ego" is just fricking lame. There is such a thing as virtuous conduct and nonvirtuous conduct. We should accept the former and reject the latter. Using a teaching announcement to castigate those who offered criticisms of one's dumbass, juvenile, sexist pranks is an insult to the very Dharma one is supposedly upholding.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Atikosha
Tibetan Medicine Blog
Sudarsana Mandala, Tibetan Medicine and Herbs
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7457
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:39 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:20 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:17 pm
Somehow I don't think the Vajrayana is in any danger at all.
Of course it isn't. This idea that Vajrayāna is being threatened by liberal values, or that Vajrayāna is inherently incompatible with such values is just hysterical and reactionary sturm and drung coming from Dzongsar.
I used t really enjoy his critiques of "liberal" values and find them well, valuable. This latest stuff though just seems like a kid going "b-b-b-ut The Guru, b-b-but samaya etc." to cover over some of his own commentary that was, at the least, ham handed and ill thought out. It's convenient that the supposed liberal values that conflict with Vajrayana (according to him) are miraculously the exact same values that allow others to criticize him and more specifically to hold him accountable for his words, who'd have thunk it!
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15179
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:49 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:36 pm
Greg, I think you being deliberately obtuse.

Dzongsar posted something he thought was funny. Many, many women called him out for his "joke." You can argue about the merits of their discomfort if you like.
I am not talking about the merit or demerit of their actions, you are bringing this judgment into the discussion. I said that all instances of attraction and repulsion originate in a sense of self/ego. I don't see what is controversial about that.
You can claim that being subject to ongoing sexual harrassment for decades and years is just "ego" if one finds it uncomfortable and reacts with shock when a high lama argues that gurus have the right to disrespect their students in any capricious fashion they choose. But then you would be in the wrong.
You see, you are taking your assumption about the motivation for DJKR's post as the only correct assumption and thus you come to the mistaken conclusion that I believe that the abuse of students is correct and acceptable (something I have never said).

Then from there you make the astounding leap of logic, that I somehow believe that rape is okay (something I have never said).
Anyway, he removed the post. He was so pissed about taking it down, however, he complained about it during his recent teachings in Mexico City. Now, he takes this occasion, in announcing his teachings in Sikkim, to call out one of the leading western women teachers?
You do realise that he is quoting the aforementioned people? They actually said these things about him. If he came here and read some of your statements about him, he could quite easily quote them back at you (in the same context as the above quotes), would you then feel outraged because he is quoting you, or would you feel that maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully?
Are you really that ok with sexism and abuse of women?
Gimme a break dude!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15179
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:36 pm
Falling back on the old "it's ego" is just fricking lame. There is such a thing as virtuous conduct and nonvirtuous conduct. We should accept the former and reject the latter.
Well that's very Hinayana of you, I must say! Personally I prefer the Mahayana take (though I fail to uphold it most of the time).
(46) In short then, whenever unfortunate sufferings we haven’t desired crash upon us like thunder, this is the same as the smith who had taken his life with a sword he had fashioned himself. Our suffering’s the wheel of sharp weapons returning full circle upon us from wrongs we have done. Hereafter let’s always have care and awareness never to act in non-virtuous ways.
The Wheel of Sharp Weapons
Using a teaching announcement to castigate those who offered criticisms of one's dumbass, juvenile, sexist pranks is an insult to the very Dharma one is supposedly upholding.
I agree that it was possibly the wrong context for these statements.
Last edited by Grigoris on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 7457
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:56 pm

You do realise that he is quoting the aforementioned people? They actually said these things about him. If he came here and read some of your statements about him, he could quite easily quote them back at you (in the same context as the above quotes), would you then feel outraged because he is quoting you, or would you feel that maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully?
So this might be true, that indeed the people he is quoting should've chosen their words more carefully...and this was the genius behind his supposed "critique", I guess it's possible, remotely.

You know who else should/could have chosen their words more carefully? Him. DJKR. He could have. It does not take a rocket surgeon to see how (and rightfully so, to some degree) a post such as his about how people alleging abuse are breaking samaya would be taken precisely the way it was.

So that either means this is all some skillful means, or simply that he has his own cultural blinders that disallow him from even acknowledging a more egalitarian relationship with students, or *gasp* female students at that - even when possible abuse is involved. Personally, given his last two posts it really looks like the latter, this is some frankly regressive behavior (and by that i mean childlike, not much else).

Now I think DJKR has some serious juice, so I am not discounting the possibility that there's more here, but as of right now it appears to simply be childish behavior from someone who would prefer not to be in a culture that holds religious figures in power to more scrutiny than he is used to (well, sometimes it does, in theory at least). I really don't see the "crazy wisdom" people are seeing here at all.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 15179
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: The DJKR Topic

Post by Grigoris » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:58 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:56 pm
So that either means this is all some skillful means, or simply that he has his own cultural blinders that disallow him from even acknowledging a more egalitarian relationship with students, or *gasp* female students at that - even when possible abuse is involved.
Or both.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: makewhisper, MatthewAngby and 60 guests