The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

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smcj
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by smcj » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:19 am

Same idea, and not that radical.
How do you feel about DJKR’s FB post in response to Sogyal R’s abuses? In it he tried to explain how to see an admittedly imperfect teacher as Buddha and he got flamed for it. I almost got run out of town for trying to discuss it in the abstract (without defending Sogyal at all). I even changed my signature because people kept thinking I was defending Sogyal instead of having trying to have a non-referenced discussion. Then you post a quote that says viewing your teacher as a high level Bodhisattva isn’t good enough. Malcolm has recently posted that those kinds of Buddha’s aren’t even human by definition. And then you say that’s not radical?

Wow. You’ve got high standards.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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krodha
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by krodha » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:36 am

smcj wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:19 am
Same idea, and not that radical.
How do you feel about DJKR’s FB post in response to Sogyal R’s abuses? In it he tried to explain how to see an admittedly imperfect teacher as Buddha and he got flamed for it. I almost got run out of town for trying to discuss it in the abstract (without defending Sogyal at all). I even changed my signature because people kept thinking I was defending Sogyal instead of having trying to have a non-referenced discussion. Then you post a quote that says viewing your teacher as a high level Bodhisattva isn’t good enough. Malcolm has recently posted that those kinds of Buddha’s aren’t even human by definition. And then you say that’s not radical?

Wow. You’ve got high standards.
I'm merely reporting how a teacher is traditionally viewed in Vajrayāna. All the extra shit, politics, scandals, etc., aren't really my interest.

Hold your teacher in high regard, but don't be naive or dumb about it. Obviously if they're out of pocket and start getting weird you should wise up and call a spade a spade.

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smcj
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by smcj » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:52 am

Hold your teacher in high regard, but don't be naive or dumb about it. Obviously if they're out of pocket and start getting weird you should wise up and call a spade a spade.
That’s exactly not seeing your teacher as a Dharmakaya Buddha.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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Once in a while you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by krodha » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:29 am

smcj wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:52 am
Hold your teacher in high regard, but don't be naive or dumb about it. Obviously if they're out of pocket and start getting weird you should wise up and call a spade a spade.
That’s exactly not seeing your teacher as a Dharmakaya Buddha.
See your teacher as a dharmakāya Buddha when receiving teachings and transmissions. Like those teachings are coming directly from the nature of mind.

In other settings, if your teacher tries to lure you into a dark room in an attempt to diddle your pickle then exercise some keen discrimination.

Take advantage of your guru's realization and experience, but don't let said teacher take advantage of you.

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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by Astus » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:37 am

smcj wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:30 am
There is no Dharma called "blessing", no magical force called "blessing". If there was, the Buddha, being compassionate, would have blessed us all into nirvana long ago.
Buddhas are neither omnipotent or capable of unilateral action. The request/receptivity must be initiated by sentient being.
Blessing is a positive change in relation to one's progress on the path to liberation. It is a specific case of receiving merit transference that comes from the appreciation of enlightened beings, while the generic meaning of receiving merit is the agreeing with any wholesome act, and that is a beneficial form of shared karma.

On the one hand, it can be said that it's all in one's mind, particularly for two reasons: all perceptions are mental fabrication, and karma is strictly individual. On the other hand, it is an inspiration originating from others, because without awareness of enlightened beings, no appreciation can occur, and without appreciation there can be no blessing.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:05 pm

If we said that guru, devotion, blessings, etc, was just a practice, we would only detract from those things if we think that practice means "making something up". Which, it doesn't.
And nobody in all of Oz. No Wizard that there is or was.

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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by Tolya M » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:07 pm

krodha wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:58 am
Malcolm wrote before:

  • Byin rlabs [blessing] means quite literally "conferral [rlabs] of power [byin]."

    Byin is defined in Tibetan as "the ability or power to transform the minds and vision/appearances of another."

    The word Byin rlabs is defined in Tibetan as "the power to remain in any subject of the Dharma of the Noble Path."

Loppön La elaborates further:

  • "Blessing" here just means the power of one person to inspire another to follow the path in some way. That's all. There is no Dharma called "blessing", no magical force called "blessing". If there was, the Buddha, being compassionate, would have blessed us all into nirvana long ago.
Nice. It is like srutavasana issuing from very pure (ativisuddha) dharmadhatu. It makes sense more clear than different misconceptions melted with inaccurate words.

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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by passel » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:13 pm

makewhisper wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:31 pm
From “A Mirror Revealing the Crucial Points:
Advice on the Ultimate Meaning” by Longchen Rabjam: “Without genuinely receiving blessings, the tender shoots of experience and realization will not grow.”

What are the guru’s blessings? What is the mechanism that connects a teacher’s blessings to the student’s experience and realization?
Just bringing back up the OP. It's a good setup and a good question.

How about-

So, if you can see your lama as dharmakaya/samantabhadra, you can't even find your lama, there's no separation between you and your lama, nothing that's not lama, just water poured into water. That's the blessing. I think the two mirrors facing gets at it. Right? You go for teachings and the teacher picks up a melong. But the point isn't just to sit there looking at a guy holding up a melong, like you're watching TV or something. you hold up your melong, and everybody who has a melong holds up their melongs and it can be quite blinding. That's blessings.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by jkarlins » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:52 pm

Just seems like a bunch of complicated concepts that don't add much.

One of the original responses was something like "energy." (I think.) This doesn't explain much more, but is clearer.

I'm not a big fan of complicated explanations, but they have their time and place. I don't think this is one. Which is to say, in regards to this concept specifically.

Jake

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smcj
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by smcj » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:20 am

If someone wants to practice he Vajrayana this subject is important to understand. Given the common misinterpretations made by westerners I suggest asking a lama from Tibet.

He will assume you understand the answer if he gives a brief explanation. Make sure you make your questions clear, otherwise misassumptions can still be perpetuated.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
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In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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krodha
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by krodha » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:33 am

smcj wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:20 am
If someone wants to practice he Vajrayana this subject is important to understand. Given the common misinterpretations made by westerners I suggest asking a lama from Tibet.

He will assume you understand the answer if he gives a brief explanation. Make sure you make your questions clear, otherwise misassumptions can still be perpetuated.
I take it you are exempt from these "western" misinterpretations and misassumptions?

passel
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by passel » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:45 am

jkarlins wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:52 pm

One of the original responses was something like "energy." (I think.) This doesn't explain much more, but is clearer
Well, energy’s super dualistic, but I mean okay as a skillful means. Pretty literal even
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

passel
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by passel » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:50 am

smcj wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:20 am
common misinterpretations made by westerners I suggest asking a lama from Tibet.
You might get an explanation that way, you may or may not understand it. More important you may or may not get the blessing. That’s another thing altogether

Plus why you gotta hate on westerners all the time. It’s been 50 years and you don’t seem curious
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:13 am

As Louis Armstrong said:
If you have to ask, you'll never know.
If you focus on an object, you are not meditating. - Dudjom Rinpoche

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smcj
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by smcj » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:48 am

passel wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:50 am
smcj wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:20 am
common misinterpretations made by westerners I suggest asking a lama from Tibet.
You might get an explanation that way, you may or may not understand it. More important you may or may not get the blessing. That’s another thing altogether

Plus why you gotta hate on westerners all the time. It’s been 50 years and you don’t seem curious
When a westerner can do the things I've seen Tibetans do then fine. Until then, stick to the undiluted source.
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.
*****
Once in a while you can get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by krodha » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:34 am

smcj wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:48 am
When a westerner can do the things I've seen Tibetans do then fine. Until then, stick to the undiluted source.
Tibetans are also exempt from misinterpretation and misassumptions?

passel
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by passel » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:44 am

Meanwhile, blessings waft by, unnoticed and unmentioned ...
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by Malcolm » Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:47 am

smcj wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:48 am

When a westerner can do the things I've seen Tibetans do then fine.

You mean miracles? Magic? Siddhis?

Read the Diamond Sutra again.
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by KrisW » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:00 am

smcj wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:48 am

When a westerner can do the things I've seen Tibetans do then fine. Until then, stick to the undiluted source.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: The concept of the teacher’s “blessings”

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:05 am

This thread already now contains 40 posts and comments.
It contains all the opinions and thoughts of everyone who ever contributed to the discussion.
How does it do that? How does contain all those ideas?
A teacher transmits the blessings of a lineage,
it's like that.
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