Harming spirits

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Tiago Simões
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Harming spirits

Post by Tiago Simões » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:54 am

I've thought about this yesterday, do we harm spirits by harming their environment (without knowing we're doing it)? And do we produce negative karma? (without knowing we're doing it)

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am

tiagolps wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:54 am
I've thought about this yesterday, do we harm spirits by harming their environment (without knowing we're doing it)? And do we produce negative karma? (without knowing we're doing it)
Definitely sure we do.

Lived one time in my elderly house above a mining shaft .
At night i could hear the coal wagons beneath ( 150 meter).

Our house was a house visited by some Nagas and a hammer house of horror.
Now i understand that nevertheless others made these underground gang ways and shafts , these Nagas take revenge on everybody.

The neighbour´s wife, committed suicide ( at the middle pond of the Water Naga of the Abbey 250 meters away from our house) and my brother died on cancer and was born with mental disease / short comings.
My father ran away to another woman when i was 12 years old. My brother left the house early and was never seen again.
My mother went crazy and was heavenly influenced by these Nagas. These Nagas showed themselves up as tall white sheets without heads.

Poverty was a normal status in those days and we never experienced good luck in that specific house.

So we have to be very careful not to live on a spot where many trees have been cut, living above mining shafts, living nearby dirty places filled with plastics or where they burn plastics etc., because the Nagas take revenge on the people there.
Nagas can be very cruel if they take revenge, i know it out of experience. I was lucky because i went to a boarder school when i was young. I had good karma because i could escape that horrible place.

The same Nagas are friendly to the monks of a Christian monastery only 250 meters away.
A powerful water Naga ( the Big Boss of the 3 ponds) there promised to protect the monastery, because he welcomed the abbot there in 1120, written in the chronicles of the abbey.

This monastery was never destroyed by war etc.
This happened because the Naga of the pond liked the first Catholic abbot there.
Remarkable is that the trees never have been cut there and the well of the pond , was never changed as well the surrounding woods.

All in all respect the place where Nagas live and ask for permission if one wants to cut a tree , likes to live there, built a house etc.and make prayers to these Nagas and Sang offerings. Never spoil their area ! They will for sure take revenge.

Then they would like the person and they never would harm him/her.

Also we have to be very careful not to hang certain protection amulets in their area, they don´t like that too, if the wind is blown in their direction.

To please the Nagas that is a very precise ritual and story, not every bodies case and specialty.

KY
The best meditation is no meditation

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Tiago Simões
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Tiago Simões » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am
tiagolps wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:54 am
I've thought about this yesterday, do we harm spirits by harming their environment (without knowing we're doing it)? And do we produce negative karma? (without knowing we're doing it)
Definitely sure we do.
...
So do these spirits actually get harmed by us? Or do they just get annoyed?

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Malcolm
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Malcolm » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:31 pm

tiagolps wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am
tiagolps wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:54 am
I've thought about this yesterday, do we harm spirits by harming their environment (without knowing we're doing it)? And do we produce negative karma? (without knowing we're doing it)
Definitely sure we do.
...
So do these spirits actually get harmed by us? Or do they just get annoyed?

If someone destroyed where you live, would you feel harm?
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Tiago Simões
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Tiago Simões » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:03 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:31 pm
tiagolps wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am


Definitely sure we do.
...
So do these spirits actually get harmed by us? Or do they just get annoyed?

If someone destroyed where you live, would you feel harm?
Of course, so they do feel harm.

Miroku
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Miroku » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:26 pm

Ofc we do. And they in return harm us or do not their job of protecting properly. I come from Sokolov in Czechia and it is a heavily industrialized part of country and region with lowest number of people with university education. Drugs and alcohol are huge problem and people are pretty unhappy. It can be felt that the local spirits are weak, especially when compared with other less industrialized regions or even parts of the same region that are not destroyed by humans.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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Tiago Simões
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Tiago Simões » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:53 pm

BTW, This question comes after I've watched kunzang dechen chodron's 6 video series "The Magic of Healing With Smoke" on Youtube, recommend it :smile: can't do any sang offerings but it was nice to hear.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:15 pm

tiagolps wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:30 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am
tiagolps wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:54 am
I've thought about this yesterday, do we harm spirits by harming their environment (without knowing we're doing it)? And do we produce negative karma? (without knowing we're doing it)
Definitely sure we do.
...
So do these spirits actually get harmed by us? Or do they just get annoyed?
They feel upset, because they are disturbed.
Their home is sometimes polluted and sometimes destroyed.
For this reason they get upset and angry

Nagas are quick angry.

Their homes are the water like for fishes is water their home and the trees like for birds.

Many don't know the existence of these unseen entities.
Many only experience the outcomes of these Nagas, Like illness, bad luck.

KY.
The best meditation is no meditation

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cyril
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by cyril » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:27 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am

The same Nagas are friendly to the monks of a Christian monastery only 250 meters away.
A powerful water Naga ( the Big Boss of the 3 ponds) there promised to protect the monastery, because he welcomed the abbot there in 1120, written in the chronicles of the abbey.

This monastery was never destroyed by war etc.
This happened because the Naga of the pond liked the first Catholic abbot there.

KY
Kalden Yungdrung, if you don't mind me asking, how did you find out about the nagas protecting that monastery? Did you or someone else manage to contact the nagas? Or by means of divination? Or...?
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:20 pm

cyril wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:27 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am

The same Nagas are friendly to the monks of a Christian monastery only 250 meters away.
A powerful water Naga ( the Big Boss of the 3 ponds) there promised to protect the monastery, because he welcomed the abbot there in 1120, written in the chronicles of the abbey.

This monastery was never destroyed by war etc.
This happened because the Naga of the pond liked the first Catholic abbot there.

KY
Kalden Yungdrung, if you don't mind me asking, how did you find out about the nagas protecting that monastery? Did you or someone else manage to contact the nagas? Or by means of divination? Or...?
Well i have discussed this topic about the water spirit with the actual priest of the abbey last year.
He knew the same facts like i do. But was very reserved like a good Catholic does regarding pagan believes.

It was written that the Saint Ailbertus from Aitong (Belgium), when he came along side the Roman pathways from Belgium, heard a voice coming out of the pond which welcomed him. The Catholics when founding a monastery, were looking first for the water. If there was water a monastery could be built.

Now it is like with every story which deals with "goasts , exorcism etc" , that the Catholic church has difficulties to give the right interpretation to these facts. Mostly they ascribe these events to the pagan culture.......

Back to the topic.

The voice who came out of the water was the mind of the water goast or like we know the Naga.
So the welcoming of the Saint / abbot, meant that the Naga gives his protection.

That monastery was never destroyed by fire or war and the feeling there is very peaceful nearly holy.
I can say that because i am nearly 3 times a week there for a walk and do the kora (going round) from the left to the right, because it is there the custom, with some mantras.

I throw always some blessed water from the well in the surrounding woods, which feeds the 3 ponds , which flows from the west to the east, in the middle pond. It is an offering to the Naga and i can feel that it is ok.

In Bön we know the offering of the 81 Torma´s to the water spirits (Klu tor) which is more to the point......

KY.
The best meditation is no meditation

Tenma
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Tenma » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:07 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:20 pm
cyril wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:27 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am

The same Nagas are friendly to the monks of a Christian monastery only 250 meters away.
A powerful water Naga ( the Big Boss of the 3 ponds) there promised to protect the monastery, because he welcomed the abbot there in 1120, written in the chronicles of the abbey.

This monastery was never destroyed by war etc.
This happened because the Naga of the pond liked the first Catholic abbot there.

KY
Kalden Yungdrung, if you don't mind me asking, how did you find out about the nagas protecting that monastery? Did you or someone else manage to contact the nagas? Or by means of divination? Or...?
Well i have discussed this topic about the water spirit with the actual priest of the abbey last year.
He knew the same facts like i do. But was very reserved like a good Catholic does regarding pagan believes.

It was written that the Saint Ailbertus from Aitong (Belgium), when he came along side the Roman pathways from Belgium, heard a voice coming out of the pond which welcomed him. The Catholics when founding a monastery, were looking first for the water. If there was water a monastery could be built.

Now it is like with every story which deals with "goasts , exorcism etc" , that the Catholic church has difficulties to give the right interpretation to these facts. Mostly they ascribe these events to the pagan culture.......

Back to the topic.

The voice who came out of the water was the mind of the water goast or like we know the Naga.
So the welcoming of the Saint / abbot, meant that the Naga gives his protection.

That monastery was never destroyed by fire or war and the feeling there is very peaceful nearly holy.
I can say that because i am nearly 3 times a week there for a walk and do the kora (going round) from the left to the right, because it is there the custom, with some mantras.

I throw always some blessed water from the well in the surrounding woods, which feeds the 3 ponds , which flows from the west to the east, in the middle pond. It is an offering to the Naga and i can feel that it is ok.

In Bön we know the offering of the 81 Torma´s to the water spirits (Klu tor) which is more to the point......

KY.
I know that I am unqualified to do this, but is there by any chance, a way to appease the nagas of the local area without a lama? So far, my daily mewa suggested offerings to the nagas, so how does one do this without complex torma cakes?
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:02 pm

Tenma wrote:

I know that I am unqualified to do this, but is there by any chance, a way to appease the nagas of the local area without a lama? So far, my daily mewa suggested offerings to the nagas, so how does one do this without complex torma cakes?
Top
Here is Sangchöd a good remedie for the Guests who claim karmic debts .
These are the wrathful spirits which tend to harm people. They possess super powers.

We can always make a small smoke offering also with Tibetan herbal incense .
One can walk in a certaIn direction with the incense with the peaceful mantra etc. around the tree, pond etc. of the affected home of the Naga. They will be pleased and attentive to that person. And if they like that person the person is protected.
Their wrath is diminished also because they feel happy / satisfied etc.

Do you know how to perform Sangchöd?


KY.
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The best meditation is no meditation

Soma999
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Soma999 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:14 pm

Spirits are affected by the destruction of their environement, for sure.

And then they can get angry and cause damage. For exemple, big winds, volcano erupting etc

Of course they can be pacified. But if they are pacified but we keep destroying, spoiling nature, it does not help a lot. It's just postponing the problem.

In case of local spirits causing problems, it depends upon the situation. But in case of big problem, it's better to ask specialists.

To be in harmony and loved by nature spirits, love nature, send love, take care of her, find interest in her, try to understand her, communicate, contemplate her beauty, and sometime make offerings, some food, some time, your love and your joy. Speak to her and express your gratitude and your appreciation.

Before cutting something from a tree, tell the tree. Respect and appreciate. Ask to be forgiven and give something coming from your heart, a prayer, a chant.

You can offer some tobacco, blessed with prayers and appreciation. (Natural) tobacco as been used by native indians and it's a plant with powerful spirit. Industrial cigarettes turn the spirit into a demon, so it's better to avoid it.

Miroku
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Miroku » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:12 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:02 pm
Tenma wrote:

I know that I am unqualified to do this, but is there by any chance, a way to appease the nagas of the local area without a lama? So far, my daily mewa suggested offerings to the nagas, so how does one do this without complex torma cakes?
Top
Here is Sangchöd a good remedie for the Guests who claim karmic debts .
These are the wrathful spirits which tend to harm people. They possess super powers.

We can always make a small smoke offering also with Tibetan herbal incense .
One can walk in a certaIn direction with the incense with the peaceful mantra etc. around the tree, pond etc. of the affected home of the Naga. They will be pleased and attentive to that person. And if they like that person the person is protected.
Their wrath is diminished also because they feel happy / satisfied etc.

Do you know how to perform Sangchöd?


KY.
I would just add that there are some special days in tibetan calendar for communication with nagas, during which it is the best to communicate with them as one does not risk angering them more. These are my 5 cents. KY gave a great advice!
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

Lhasa
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Lhasa » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:04 pm

https://www.facebook.com/serenityridger ... 617206732/

Here is a video of a Bon Sang ritual at Serenity Ridge. You can write to John Jackson at ligminchalearning.com and ask for the text. This ritual was done in English, and John explains what is happening as it goes along. This is how I learned to do it.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:52 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:02 pm
Tenma wrote:

I know that I am unqualified to do this, but is there by any chance, a way to appease the nagas of the local area without a lama? So far, my daily mewa suggested offerings to the nagas, so how does one do this without complex torma cakes?
Top
Here is Sangchöd a good remedie for the Guests who claim karmic debts .
These are the wrathful spirits which tend to harm people. They possess super powers.

We can always make a small smoke offering also with Tibetan herbal incense .
One can walk in a certaIn direction with the incense with the peaceful mantra etc. around the tree, pond etc. of the affected home of the Naga. They will be pleased and attentive to that person. And if they like that person the person is protected.
Their wrath is diminished also because they feel happy / satisfied etc.

Do you know how to perform Sangchöd?


KY.
IN ADDITION:
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=23687


If you want the Sangchöd text, then i can give you that, then pm me.

Mutsuk marro
KY.
The best meditation is no meditation

Lhasa
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Lhasa » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:14 pm

Thank you for sharing Lopon's Sang teaching. I would love to read more of his teachings, I hope you post more. :buddha2:

Tenma
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Tenma » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:44 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:52 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:02 pm
Tenma wrote:

I know that I am unqualified to do this, but is there by any chance, a way to appease the nagas of the local area without a lama? So far, my daily mewa suggested offerings to the nagas, so how does one do this without complex torma cakes?
Top
Here is Sangchöd a good remedie for the Guests who claim karmic debts .
These are the wrathful spirits which tend to harm people. They possess super powers.

We can always make a small smoke offering also with Tibetan herbal incense .
One can walk in a certaIn direction with the incense with the peaceful mantra etc. around the tree, pond etc. of the affected home of the Naga. They will be pleased and attentive to that person. And if they like that person the person is protected.
Their wrath is diminished also because they feel happy / satisfied etc.

Do you know how to perform Sangchöd?


KY.
IN ADDITION:
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=23687


If you want the Sangchöd text, then i can give you that, then pm me.

Mutsuk marro
KY.
I think I might need the text through PM. However, will frankincense work out with nagas or not?
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:15 pm

Tenma wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:44 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:52 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:02 pm


Here is Sangchöd a good remedie for the Guests who claim karmic debts .
These are the wrathful spirits which tend to harm people. They possess super powers.

We can always make a small smoke offering also with Tibetan herbal incense .
One can walk in a certaIn direction with the incense with the peaceful mantra etc. around the tree, pond etc. of the affected home of the Naga. They will be pleased and attentive to that person. And if they like that person the person is protected.
Their wrath is diminished also because they feel happy / satisfied etc.

Do you know how to perform Sangchöd?


KY.
IN ADDITION:
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=23687


If you want the Sangchöd text, then i can give you that, then pm me.

Mutsuk marro
KY.
I think I might need the text through PM. However, will frankincense work out with nagas or not?
Yes, if you have nothing else everything done with a + motivation can serve, but it is not so strong.
You need to fix it anyway with mind and Mind and as a medium we use the juniper leaves.

https://www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/visiti ... s/juniper/


You need in Bön and elswhere, also some Mantras on the level of what you practice like Causal Way, Tantra , Dzogchen.
Also prayer flags can be of great help. Smoke and Prayer flags are like dal soup and chapati.

So to do it complete, that is the best way and most powerful because we have powerful guests like the Klu etc.

KY.
The best meditation is no meditation

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Josef
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Re: Harming spirits

Post by Josef » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:59 pm

There are great stories of Patrul Rinpoche pacifying spirits who had been harmed by teaching the Bodhicaryavatara in their habitat.
He also instructed his disciples to teach the Bodhicaryavatara to spirits etc.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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