The Dog's Tooth.

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Simon E.
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Simon E. »

Yes I have heard the story before Magnus. Of course, it could be that Bob has told it before.. :smile:

I guess the common factor between the two stories is the emphasis on clear View transcending sense objects and method.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
bob
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by bob »

Sigh . . . .

one of the reasons I have learned to avoid these types of forums.

in any case, here ya go: http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/mea ... e-hung.htm
Lukeinaz
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Lukeinaz »

Simon E. wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:45 am Anyone who has been around the Vajrayana for a while will know the story of the dog's tooth that was treated as a relic and eventually began to glow. We have heard it many times.
Yesterday it was mentioned again and I was reflecting on it as if it was new to me..and I realised that I didn't really understand it at all
I know it's a teaching fable..but what exactly is it teaching?
Bear with me...Pretend that you too are hearing it for the first time.
What does it it say to you?
So what have you learned?
Fortyeightvows
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Fortyeightvows »

I've been following lzr for twenty years. I have on a few occasions tell a similar story to the one given above by bob. I say similar because, essentially, it was told in the context of tibetan and chinese pronunciations of mantras. The point of the story as I have heard it told, was that a person had practiced their mantra with so much dedication for so long and have achieved so much, but later was told they were pronouncing it wrong and that after being told this they had no more achievement.
or something like that.
Bristollad
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Bristollad »

heart wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:29 pm
bob wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:22 pm Hiya magnus!

Best to ask before making accusations, eh.

Lama Zopa Rinpoche first shared this story with the members of the ‘Foundation for the Preservation of Mahayana Tradition.


https://sanaakosirickylee.wordpress.com ... ur-mantra/
Sorry Bob, it doesn't sound true at all. You have to give me a better source.

/magnus
First you accuse him of making it up - and he demonstrated that was incorrect.

Now you want him to prove the story is true :rolling:


It's a well-know teaching story - I've heard it and read it many times over the years. Always in the context of telling people not to be so uptight about being perfect (some are so paranoid about getting everything correct, they never get around to starting).
The antidote—to be free from the suffering of samsara—you need to be free from delusion and karma; you need to be free from ignorance, the root of samsara. So you need to meditate on emptiness. That is what you need. Lama Zopa Rinpoche
bob
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by bob »

The Harshest Judge

Jigme Lingpa once said that, aside from the ground
expanse, everything is a lie, and a grand one at that.

Even though each one of our lives is comparable to
a made-up story, does that mean they have no value?

Although we are here performing onstage in a virtual
reality, what we do or don't do still has consequences.

The slightest casual cruelty we may have once indulged
can return to sting us when we are least expecting it.

Likewise, little acts of kindness will not go unnoticed,
though perhaps we thought nothing of them at the time.

All of our mistakes are actually useful gifts we grant
ourselves to learn more about who and what we are.

Each of us will have the opportunity to review just how
skillfully we've carried out our role in life's production.

And even though we might have heard it said before,
it still is true: the harshest judge of yourself will be you.

:namaste:
Tenma
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Tenma »

Well, there is this siddhi from the Om Mani Padme Hum:

Though I doubt if the monk is authentic or not, especially if there are any tricks being done. Still, if he's performing actual siddhi, so be it.
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anjali
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by anjali »

bob wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:34 pm Sigh . . . .

one of the reasons I have learned to avoid these types of forums.

in any case, here ya go: http://www.dharma-haven.org/tibetan/mea ... e-hung.htm
For what it's worth, this reminds me of the story of the three hermits, as told by Tolstoy.
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DGA
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by DGA »

Simon E. wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:45 am Anyone who has been around the Vajrayana for a while will know the story of the dog's tooth that was treated as a relic and eventually began to glow. We have heard it many times.
Yesterday it was mentioned again and I was reflecting on it as if it was new to me..and I realised that I didn't really understand it at all
I know it's a teaching fable..but what exactly is it teaching?
Bear with me...Pretend that you too are hearing it for the first time.
What does it it say to you?
I've always taken it as a parable of the power of trust in the teachings and the teacher. I remember it in the context of two other similar but maybe less familiar stories.

One of them I remember hearing in a recording of Chagdud Tulku teaching, as interpreted by one of his American students. A master had a student who wasn't very clever, but had a great deal of faith and persistence in practice. So the student was sent to a cave with a certain mantra but misunderstood the instructions, even though the master had also sent along another disciple to remind him of what he ought to be doing. Anyway the student wound up growing horns due to some confusion of Tibetan verbs and nouns, and the power of his own disciplined and faith-saturated practice. The master corrected him and he got the fruit of practice, and the horns went away.

The other story: once upon a time someone left a statue of the Buddha by the side of the road with the pure intention of bringing blessing to those who walk along that road. Someone else saw that statue and thought... well, that's sucks having Buddha out here in the mud and the rain, and that person took off his shoes and covered the Buddha statue with them, again with the purest of intentions, and walked about in the mud barefoot. Then someone else comes by and sees those shoes and thinks... well, look, some fool left his dirty shoes on the Buddha statue, and that person removed the shoes with the pure intention of letting the rain was the statue clean again. And so on. The gist: everyone involved accrued great merit, even though their actions were contradictory, because their intentions were pure.

The same principle is at work in all these. Consistent, persistent trust in the teachings and the teacher is of paramount importance and can bring extraordinary results, even if you are a fumbling idiot.
Fortyeightvows
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Fortyeightvows »

DGA wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:11 am The other story: once upon a time someone left a statue of the Buddha by the side of the road with the pure intention of bringing blessing to those who walk along that road. Someone else saw that statue and thought... well, that's sucks having Buddha out here in the mud and the rain, and that person took off his shoes and covered the Buddha statue with them, again with the purest of intentions, and walked about in the mud barefoot. Then someone else comes by and sees those shoes and thinks... well, look, some fool left his dirty shoes on the Buddha statue, and that person removed the shoes with the pure intention of letting the rain was the statue clean again. And so on. The gist: everyone involved accrued great merit, even though their actions were contradictory, because their intentions were pure.
I haven't heard that story in years! Thanks for reminding me of it! :cheers:
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heart
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by heart »

DGA wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:11 am The other story: once upon a time someone left a statue of the Buddha by the side of the road with the pure intention of bringing blessing to those who walk along that road. Someone else saw that statue and thought... well, that's sucks having Buddha out here in the mud and the rain, and that person took off his shoes and covered the Buddha statue with them, again with the purest of intentions, and walked about in the mud barefoot. Then someone else comes by and sees those shoes and thinks... well, look, some fool left his dirty shoes on the Buddha statue, and that person removed the shoes with the pure intention of letting the rain was the statue clean again. And so on. The gist: everyone involved accrued great merit, even though their actions were contradictory, because their intentions were pure.

The same principle is at work in all these. Consistent, persistent trust in the teachings and the teacher is of paramount importance and can bring extraordinary results, even if you are a fumbling idiot.
Actually, that sounds like a distorted version of a classic Aku Tonpa story just like Bobs story sounds like a distorted version of the Sakya Pandita and the Vajrakilaya mantra. I could be wrong of course.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
gb9810
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by gb9810 »

heart wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:35 am Actually, that sounds like a distorted version of a classic Aku Tonpa story just like Bobs story sounds like a distorted version of the Sakya Pandita and the Vajrakilaya mantra. I could be wrong of course.

/magnus
it looks like we are creating our own dog tooth! :)
Simon E.
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Simon E. »

Which might be another aspect of the stories purpose......
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
MalaBeads
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by MalaBeads »

I have no idea if I am a "better source" but I have heard the story too before.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.
Tenma
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Tenma »

But aren't all sounds one and the same? I mean, what's the point of correct pronunciation if all sound is the same? Couldn't you just use swear words instead of mantras? Makes things easier and understandable,especially if you want to be free from samsara.
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gb9810
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by gb9810 »

Tenma wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:41 pm But aren't all sounds one and the same? I mean, what's the point of correct pronunciation if all sound is the same? Couldn't you just use swear words instead of mantras? Makes things easier and understandable,especially if you want to be free from samsara.
all sounds are the same. But have we fully realized that?
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heart
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by heart »

MalaBeads wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:46 pm I have no idea if I am a "better source" but I have heard the story too before.
I am probably stupid but I do distrust all stories that are so anonymous.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Tenma
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Tenma »

gb9810 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:18 pm
Tenma wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:41 pm But aren't all sounds one and the same? I mean, what's the point of correct pronunciation if all sound is the same? Couldn't you just use swear words instead of mantras? Makes things easier and understandable,especially if you want to be free from samsara.
all sounds are the same. But have we fully realized that?
Perhaps we do, perhaps we don't. Why care? Just questioning that's all.
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gb9810
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by gb9810 »

Tenma wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:52 am
gb9810 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:18 pm
Tenma wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:41 pm But aren't all sounds one and the same? I mean, what's the point of correct pronunciation if all sound is the same? Couldn't you just use swear words instead of mantras? Makes things easier and understandable,especially if you want to be free from samsara.
all sounds are the same. But have we fully realized that?
Perhaps we do, perhaps we don't. Why care? Just questioning that's all.
if one has not actually realized the equality of all sounds, then curses and mantra and such are NOT the same, so one should care. Same for listeners or receivers of sounds and actions. "it's all equal ultimately" does not imply therefore one can do/say whatever one wants to people who have no ultimate realization of the equality of actions/sounds. Just answering your original question that's all...
Tenma
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Re: The Dog's Tooth.

Post by Tenma »

gb9810 wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:12 am
Tenma wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:52 am
gb9810 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:18 pm

all sounds are the same. But have we fully realized that?
Perhaps we do, perhaps we don't. Why care? Just questioning that's all.
if one has not actually realized the equality of all sounds, then curses and mantra and such are NOT the same, so one should care. Same for listeners or receivers of sounds and actions. "it's all equal ultimately" does not imply therefore one can do/say whatever one wants to people who have no ultimate realization of the equality of actions/sounds. Just answering your original question that's all...
Not quite, having faith in it can lead to enlightenment. I remember one story about a crazy yogi who was asked for a mantra, and the yogi gave swear words to the person who reached enlightenment through faith in this "mantra"
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