Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

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KiwiNFLFan
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Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by KiwiNFLFan » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm

I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings. Is this true? I've been reading books by the Dalai Lama and he definitely the Four Noble Truths which are the foundation of Buddhism.

I've attended my local Tibetan Buddhist centre a few times and definitely intend to continue going. I particularly feel devoted to Tara and have started reciting the 21 Praises to Exalted Tara each morning and evening. I really like the Tibetan path.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:09 pm

Tibetan Buddhism is totally connected with the Buddha's teachings. I believe Lamaism comes from Europeans believing Theravada is the only true Buddhism and the rest are corruptions.
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5

Norwegian
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Norwegian » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:20 pm

Lobsang Chojor wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:09 pm
Tibetan Buddhism is totally connected with the Buddha's teachings. I believe Lamaism comes from Europeans believing Theravada is the only true Buddhism and the rest are corruptions.
This needs further clarification: Certain Europeans in the 19th and 20th century. Often of a puritanical Christian background. That is when the ignorant term "Lamaism" started being used.

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Simon E. » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:26 pm

Indeed.
'Lamaism' was a term invented by early European scholars in order to badmouth something they did not understand.
And you can be sure that anyone who uses it in 2017 does not understand the Vajrayana ( the proper name of the Buddhism of Tibet but which is found in other countries too) either.

In the Vajrayana we consider that the Dharma that we follow actually comes directly from the Buddhas.
"Any major dude with half a heart
Will surely tell you my friend,
Any minor world that breaks apart
Can fall together again.
Any major dude will tell you."

Steely Dan.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:27 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:20 pm
Lobsang Chojor wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:09 pm
Tibetan Buddhism is totally connected with the Buddha's teachings. I believe Lamaism comes from Europeans believing Theravada is the only true Buddhism and the rest are corruptions.
This needs further clarification: Certain Europeans in the 19th and 20th century. Often of a puritanical Christian background. That is when the ignorant term "Lamaism" started being used.
Yes sorry, I should have clarified further
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:01 pm

What do you think those unenlightened Europeans could possibly have meant by that term? This?
Simon E. wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:26 pm
... the Dharma that we follow actually comes directly from the Buddhas.
And nobody in all of Oz. No Wizard that there is or was.

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Simon E. » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:05 pm

No.
"Any major dude with half a heart
Will surely tell you my friend,
Any minor world that breaks apart
Can fall together again.
Any major dude will tell you."

Steely Dan.

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Aryjna
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Aryjna » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:49 am

KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings.
The world is full of people who talk about things they do not understand in the slightest. This is even more true when it comes to the internet, which should go without saying.

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:56 am

KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings. Is this true? I've been reading books by the Dalai Lama and he definitely the Four Noble Truths which are the foundation of Buddhism.

I've attended my local Tibetan Buddhist centre a few times and definitely intend to continue going. I particularly feel devoted to Tara and have started reciting the 21 Praises to Exalted Tara each morning and evening. I really like the Tibetan path.
Probably said by a fairly sectarian Theravadin, or something close to it.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Norwegian » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:06 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:56 am
KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings. Is this true? I've been reading books by the Dalai Lama and he definitely the Four Noble Truths which are the foundation of Buddhism.

I've attended my local Tibetan Buddhist centre a few times and definitely intend to continue going. I particularly feel devoted to Tara and have started reciting the 21 Praises to Exalted Tara each morning and evening. I really like the Tibetan path.
Probably said by a fairly sectarian Theravadin, or something close to it.
Yeah. That's very common. I treat such utterances as mere noise. Observe, ignore, move on.

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by DGA » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:11 am

KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings. Is this true?
No, this is nonsense.
I've attended my local Tibetan Buddhist centre a few times and definitely intend to continue going. I particularly feel devoted to Tara and have started reciting the 21 Praises to Exalted Tara each morning and evening. I really like the Tibetan path.
This is excellent. I rejoice in the merits of your practice. Enjoy the adventure.

Meanwhile, if you don't mind: NZ is a beautiful and interesting place. There's a lot to do there besides watching TV. How on earth would a Kiwi get interested in the NFL? I'm in the States and to me the NFL just moves too slow.

KiwiNFLFan
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by KiwiNFLFan » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:37 am

What about the claim that Tibetan Buddhism absorbed ideas from the native Bön religion?

KiwiNFLFan
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by KiwiNFLFan » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:41 am

DGA wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:11 am

Meanwhile, if you don't mind: NZ is a beautiful and interesting place. There's a lot to do there besides watching TV. How on earth would a Kiwi get interested in the NFL? I'm in the States and to me the NFL just moves too slow.
New Zealand is indeed a beautiful place and I've certainly seen some stunning landscapes.

It took me a while to get into the NFL. It seemed to move much slower than rugby, which is our national sport. But once I understood how the game worked - the down system etc - I just really liked watching it. Here's to a Giants Super Bowl victory next year!

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:03 am

KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:37 am
What about the claim that Tibetan Buddhism absorbed ideas from the native Bön religion?
It absorbed some things from Bon yes, but Tantric Buddhism was exported from India to Tibet, it's not controversial.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Wayfarer » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:44 am

The term ‘Lama-ism’ comes (at least in part) from Thomas Rhys-Davids, founder of the Pali Text Society. He, and then his wife who succeeded him after his death, both saw Theravada Buddhism as nearer to what they depicted as ‘the original teaching of the Buddha’. Their view was very much that Buddhism was an ideal religion for the scientific age - in fact it was Rhys Davids who translated ‘bodhi’ as ‘enlightenment’, at least in part because of its association with THE Enlightenment. But they also believed that Mahāyāna Buddhism, and TIbetan Buddhism, had fallen away from the original form which they believed was best represented in the Pali texts.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by thomaslaw » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:52 am

KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings. Is this true? I've been reading books by the Dalai Lama and he definitely the Four Noble Truths which are the foundation of Buddhism.

I've attended my local Tibetan Buddhist centre a few times and definitely intend to continue going. I particularly feel devoted to Tara and have started reciting the 21 Praises to Exalted Tara each morning and evening. I really like the Tibetan path.
I think l have to agree with you Tibetan Buddhism is not entirely connected with the Buddha's teaching. Eg Tara, Tantric practices are not really the Buddha's teaching.

Thomas

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by jmlee369 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:58 am

KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:37 am
What about the claim that Tibetan Buddhism absorbed ideas from the native Bön religion?
Tibetan Buddhism absorbed about as much from Bon as Theravada Buddhism in Southeast Asia picked up indigenous and Hindu elements such as Nat worship, amulets, astrology, etc. In East Asia, indigenous and Confucian, Daoist influences affected the tradition, as can be seen from heavy emphasis on ancestral rites involving tablets and the integration of Shinto and Buddhism is Japan, etc. Oftentimes, people unfamiliar Buddhist tantric developments in India misattribute elements of Tibetan Buddhism to Bon.

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by Grigoris » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:01 am

thomaslaw wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:52 am
KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings. Is this true? I've been reading books by the Dalai Lama and he definitely the Four Noble Truths which are the foundation of Buddhism.

I've attended my local Tibetan Buddhist centre a few times and definitely intend to continue going. I particularly feel devoted to Tara and have started reciting the 21 Praises to Exalted Tara each morning and evening. I really like the Tibetan path.
I think l have to agree with you Tibetan Buddhism is not entirely connected with the Buddha's teaching. Eg Tara, Tantric practices are not really the Buddha's teaching.

Thomas
You are going to have to give some sources to back this claim, otherwise I will consider it trolling and deal with it appropriately. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by thomaslaw » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:47 am

Grigoris wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:01 am
thomaslaw wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:52 am
KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings. Is this true? I've been reading books by the Dalai Lama and he definitely the Four Noble Truths which are the foundation of Buddhism.

I've attended my local Tibetan Buddhist centre a few times and definitely intend to continue going. I particularly feel devoted to Tara and have started reciting the 21 Praises to Exalted Tara each morning and evening. I really like the Tibetan path.
I think l have to agree with you Tibetan Buddhism is not entirely connected with the Buddha's teaching. Eg Tara, Tantric practices are not really the Buddha's teaching.

Thomas
You are going to have to give some sources to back this claim, otherwise I will consider it trolling and deal with it appropriately. ;)
The sources are already presented in the teachings of the ideas and practices in the history of Indian Buddhism. Note: Not the Buddha' teachings done not mean no or less value. In fact it indicates the culture development for the special identity, which should be clearly recognised.

Thomas

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heart
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Re: Tibetan Buddhism only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings?

Post by heart » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:07 pm

thomaslaw wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:52 am
KiwiNFLFan wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I saw on a Yahoo Answers page someone mentioning that Tibetan Buddhism has been dubbed "lamaism" because it is only loosely connected with Buddha's teachings. Is this true? I've been reading books by the Dalai Lama and he definitely the Four Noble Truths which are the foundation of Buddhism.

I've attended my local Tibetan Buddhist centre a few times and definitely intend to continue going. I particularly feel devoted to Tara and have started reciting the 21 Praises to Exalted Tara each morning and evening. I really like the Tibetan path.
I think l have to agree with you Tibetan Buddhism is not entirely connected with the Buddha's teaching. Eg Tara, Tantric practices are not really the Buddha's teaching.

Thomas
You sound just like a hundred year old christian professor in comparative religion, how refreshing. :smile: Interesingly people with you opinion almost always think they can invent themselves what Buddhas teaching was.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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