How to understand the body correctly

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CedarTree
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How to understand the body correctly

Post by CedarTree » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 pm

In a lot of different schools of Buddhism the body and or the yogic understanding is not given a lot of weight or very very subtle in it's appreciation.

In Tibetan Buddhism it seems equal in understanding body and mind?

I.e. Understanding how mind rides the different movements of the body and such.

What is the correct way to understand the body and the correct way to understand the mind in Tibetan Buddhism?

Practice, Practice, Practice

diamind
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by diamind » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 am

CedarTree wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 pm
In a lot of different schools of Buddhism the body and or the yogic understanding is not given a lot of weight or very very subtle in it's appreciation.

In Tibetan Buddhism it seems equal in understanding body and mind?

I.e. Understanding how mind rides the different movements of the body and such.

What is the correct way to understand the body and the correct way to understand the mind in Tibetan Buddhism?
Buddhist view is you are your body and mind and not seperate from it.

Vajrayana (TB) veiw is your body and mind is the deity.

DKJr said your mind is like a horny rabbit. Other texts describe the body as a sack of excrement.

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:59 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 am
DKJr said your mind is like a horny rabbit.
That explains why my thoughts proliferate.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

Tenma
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Tenma » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:30 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 am
CedarTree wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 pm
In a lot of different schools of Buddhism the body and or the yogic understanding is not given a lot of weight or very very subtle in it's appreciation.

In Tibetan Buddhism it seems equal in understanding body and mind?

I.e. Understanding how mind rides the different movements of the body and such.

What is the correct way to understand the body and the correct way to understand the mind in Tibetan Buddhism?
Buddhist view is you are your body and mind and not seperate from it.

Vajrayana (TB) veiw is your body and mind is the deity.

DKJr said your mind is like a horny rabbit. Other texts describe the body as a sack of excrement.
I wouldn't trust the True Buddha(TB) school if I were you...

Norwegian
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Norwegian » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:50 pm

Tenma wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:30 pm
diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 am
CedarTree wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 pm
In a lot of different schools of Buddhism the body and or the yogic understanding is not given a lot of weight or very very subtle in it's appreciation.

In Tibetan Buddhism it seems equal in understanding body and mind?

I.e. Understanding how mind rides the different movements of the body and such.

What is the correct way to understand the body and the correct way to understand the mind in Tibetan Buddhism?
Buddhist view is you are your body and mind and not seperate from it.

Vajrayana (TB) veiw is your body and mind is the deity.

DKJr said your mind is like a horny rabbit. Other texts describe the body as a sack of excrement.
I wouldn't trust the True Buddha(TB) school if I were you...
TB = Tibetan Buddhism...

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CedarTree
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by CedarTree » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:10 pm

diamind wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:13 am
CedarTree wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:40 pm
In a lot of different schools of Buddhism the body and or the yogic understanding is not given a lot of weight or very very subtle in it's appreciation.

In Tibetan Buddhism it seems equal in understanding body and mind?

I.e. Understanding how mind rides the different movements of the body and such.

What is the correct way to understand the body and the correct way to understand the mind in Tibetan Buddhism?
Buddhist view is you are your body and mind and not seperate from it.

Vajrayana (TB) veiw is your body and mind is the deity.

DKJr said your mind is like a horny rabbit. Other texts describe the body as a sack of excrement.
Tell me more about how the body and mind is the deity.

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Vasana
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Vasana » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:58 pm

'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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CedarTree
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by CedarTree » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:57 pm

Tell me points you understood from this book, context, understandings, framework you have towards this subject :)

Practice, Practice, Practice

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:12 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:10 pm
Tell me more about how the body and mind is the deity.
If anyone told you, they'd be breaking their indestructible wind.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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Vasana
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Vasana » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 pm

CedarTree wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:57 pm
Tell me points you understood from this book, context, understandings, framework you have towards this subject :)
In short: correct view of the body can help develop one's realizations, especially if you are combining 'paths of means' that involve yogic exercises with the 'paths of wisdom' that correct bodily view and method can bring about. Some people are more suited to the path of wisdom but even a minimal understanding of the body here can still help in that regard.

I couldn't outlay it beter than the book and summary on the link already hints at. There is a freely available dissertation online too. You'll understand the topic sooner from reading that than my basic and faulty summary.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Norwegian
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Norwegian » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 pm

Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:57 pm
Tell me points you understood from this book, context, understandings, framework you have towards this subject :)
In short: correct view of the body can help develop one's realizations, especially if you are combining 'paths of means' that involve yogic exercises with the 'paths of wisdom' that correct bodily view and method can bring about. Some people are more suited to the path of wisdom but even a minimal understanding of the body here can still help in that regard.

I couldn't outlay it beter than the book and summary on the link already hints at. There is a freely available dissertation online too. You'll understand the topic sooner from reading that than my basic and faulty summary.
It's pretty much understood that one should have received empowerment before one studies a text like this, not to mention have had teachings on it too.

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CedarTree
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by CedarTree » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:41 pm

Let's say a little about the subject that isn't bound only within the teacher-student relationship.

For instance a sketch framework. We all know that a lot of you are quite knowledgeable so lets talk a bit about the subject as it's an important one and not all of it is hidden.

Practice, Practice, Practice

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Vasana
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Vasana » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 pm
Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:57 pm


Tell me points you understood from this book, context, understandings, framework you have towards this subject :)
In short: correct view of the body can help develop one's realizations, especially if you are combining 'paths of means' that involve yogic exercises with the 'paths of wisdom' that correct bodily view and method can bring about. Some people are more suited to the path of wisdom but even a minimal understanding of the body here can still help in that regard.

I couldn't outlay it beter than the book and summary on the link already hints at. There is a freely available dissertation online too. You'll understand the topic sooner from reading that than my basic and faulty summary.
It's pretty much understood that one should have received empowerment before one studies a text like this, not to mention have had teachings on it too.
It's not a restricted text as far as I know. It doesn't contain instructions. Teachings and empowerment are obviously ideal but an academic dissertation on the topic is already freely circulating.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Norwegian
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:36 pm

Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Norwegian » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:36 pm

Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 pm
Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 pm


In short: correct view of the body can help develop one's realizations, especially if you are combining 'paths of means' that involve yogic exercises with the 'paths of wisdom' that correct bodily view and method can bring about. Some people are more suited to the path of wisdom but even a minimal understanding of the body here can still help in that regard.

I couldn't outlay it beter than the book and summary on the link already hints at. There is a freely available dissertation online too. You'll understand the topic sooner from reading that than my basic and faulty summary.
It's pretty much understood that one should have received empowerment before one studies a text like this, not to mention have had teachings on it too.
It's not a restricted text as far as I know. It doesn't contain instructions. Teachings and empowerment are obviously ideal but an academic dissertation on the topic is already freely circulating.
It does not have a note saying "This text is restricted" no, but it's a topic that deals with something that belongs to Vajrayana, and as such it is only proper to study after having entered the gate of empowerment. That's really quite basic. Someone who hasn't entered the gate of empowerment and as such has not received Vajrayana teachings, should not study creation stage or completion stage, for example.

Of course people can do whatever they want to, like they always do, but I'm just saying that a book like this will actually be useless to someone who hasn't received Vajrayana. It'll just be intellectual masturbation and a waste of time.

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Vasana
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Vasana » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:58 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:36 pm
Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:22 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:32 pm

It's pretty much understood that one should have received empowerment before one studies a text like this, not to mention have had teachings on it too.
It's not a restricted text as far as I know. It doesn't contain instructions. Teachings and empowerment are obviously ideal but an academic dissertation on the topic is already freely circulating.
It does not have a note saying "This text is restricted" no, but it's a topic that deals with something that belongs to Vajrayana, and as such it is only proper to study after having entered the gate of empowerment. That's really quite basic. Someone who hasn't entered the gate of empowerment and as such has not received Vajrayana teachings, should not study creation stage or completion stage, for example.

Of course people can do whatever they want to, like they always do, but I'm just saying that a book like this will actually be useless to someone who hasn't received Vajrayana. It'll just be intellectual masturbation and a waste of time.

So then absolutely no one should ever read any books on vajrayana or dzogchen or mahamudra prior to empowerment? In an ideal world and perhaps in the past this was true but a quick glance on Amazon will reveal a lot of vajrayana books are out there with a variety of depth. Many kriya sadhanas exist without empowerment and public commentaries on these understandably have to explain the wider context of Vajrayana. Seems unavoidable. Some topics should definitely be avoided at all costs since they can hinder your progress if you misunderstand and misapply them but there are also many books that provide an intellectual or inspiring taste of the subject matter even if one's understanding and practical use of it is limited prior to having entered and applied the teachings.

I guess it also depends on your definition of useless. Sometimes a bit of intellectual masturbation might wet the appetite and actually inspire people to do some further homework and ideally find a qualified teacher.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:00 pm

Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:58 pm
... masturbation might wet the appetite ...
:heart:
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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CedarTree
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by CedarTree » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:30 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:00 pm
Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:58 pm
... masturbation might wet the appetite ...
:heart:
And the quote of the year goes to! :namaste:

Practice, Practice, Practice

Josef
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Josef » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:47 pm

If you really want to understand this topic from the Vajrayana/Dzogchen point of view you will need empowerments, transmissions, direct introduction etc.
After that, there are English translations of works by Longchenpa and others that explain the topic clearly.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Norwegian
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by Norwegian » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Josef wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:47 pm
If you really want to understand this topic from the Vajrayana/Dzogchen point of view you will need empowerments, transmissions, direct introduction etc.
After that, there are English translations of works by Longchenpa and others that explain the topic clearly.
Indeed. And then, having received these things, then studying these texts will actually make sense. They become useful.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: How to understand the body correctly

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:09 am

CT, you can download the dissertation that I think Vasana had in mind here:
https://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/11125112
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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