Bumpa

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tomfelt
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Bumpa

Post by tomfelt » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:59 am

Is plain water acceptable for filling a bumpa, or should it be more elaborate, like saffron water? also, how often do you change the water?

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Virgo
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Virgo » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:00 am

Are you giving an empowerment?

Kevin

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:08 am

I'm pretty sure it should be saffron water. Also pretty sure the deity vase should have bumzey in it as well. I don't have any definitive source for you, but that's what I've learned and how I practice based on my teachers' instructions.

Lhasa
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Lhasa » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:51 am

What is bumzey?

dzoki
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Re: Bumpa

Post by dzoki » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:55 am

Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:51 am
What is bumzey?
Bumdze (bum rdzas) is a mixture of ingredients (herbal and mineral) used for filling a vase representing a deity and its mandala.

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Re: Bumpa

Post by Lhasa » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:03 pm

dzoki wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:55 am
Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:51 am
What is bumzey?
Bumdze (bum rdzas) is a mixture of ingredients (herbal and mineral) used for filling a vase representing a deity and its mandala.
Thank you. And the deity vase is different from the bumpa?

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Malcolm
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:38 pm

Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:03 pm
dzoki wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:55 am
Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:51 am
What is bumzey?
Bumdze (bum rdzas) is a mixture of ingredients (herbal and mineral) used for filling a vase representing a deity and its mandala.
Thank you. And the deity vase is different from the bumpa?

There are two vases, typically. One is the activity vase, the contents of which are visualized as wrathful deities.

The other vase is the as mentioned above, the vase that represents the mandala. It contents are visualized as the deity, mandala, and celestial mansion. It is from the latter vase one receives the vase empowerment related to the creation stage.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

Lhasa
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Lhasa » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:49 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:38 pm
Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:03 pm
dzoki wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:55 am


Bumdze (bum rdzas) is a mixture of ingredients (herbal and mineral) used for filling a vase representing a deity and its mandala.
Thank you. And the deity vase is different from the bumpa?

There are two vases, typically. One is the activity vase, the contents of which are visualized as wrathful deities.

The other vase is the as mentioned above, the vase that represents the mandala. It contents are visualized as the deity, mandala, and celestial mansion. It is from the latter vase one receives the vase empowerment related to the creation stage.
Garchen Rinpoche uses a bumpa with a deity card attached to it for the vase empowerment. If they use a second vase, it's not obvious. Unless it is the one they use to give purification water to the attendees. Thanks

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Malcolm
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Malcolm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:51 pm

Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:49 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:38 pm
Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:03 pm


Thank you. And the deity vase is different from the bumpa?

There are two vases, typically. One is the activity vase, the contents of which are visualized as wrathful deities.

The other vase is the as mentioned above, the vase that represents the mandala. It contents are visualized as the deity, mandala, and celestial mansion. It is from the latter vase one receives the vase empowerment related to the creation stage.
Garchen Rinpoche uses a bumpa with a deity card attached to it for the vase empowerment. If they use a second vase, it's not obvious. Unless it is the one they use to give purification water to the attendees. Thanks
The activity vase is used in the empowerment preparations, you won't see it used much during the actual empowerment.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Bumpa

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:00 pm

And if Grace Jones was receiving an empowerment she would say ...
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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Re: Bumpa

Post by pemachophel » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:01 pm

Besides including saffron and bum-dze, the activity vase needs to be consecrated before use. (Loppon/Malcolm alluded to this.) Please get the relevant liturgy and visualization from your Teacher. Generally, the activity vase can be refilled five times before needing to start over. Also Bum-dze 25 is for the activity vase and Bum-dze 35 is for the empowerment vase. These should not be confused. Bum-dze 35 contains the same 25 ingredients as Bum-dze 25 but then also the five meats and five amrits.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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conebeckham
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Re: Bumpa

Post by conebeckham » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:02 pm

Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:49 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:38 pm
Lhasa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:03 pm


Thank you. And the deity vase is different from the bumpa?

There are two vases, typically. One is the activity vase, the contents of which are visualized as wrathful deities.

The other vase is the as mentioned above, the vase that represents the mandala. It contents are visualized as the deity, mandala, and celestial mansion. It is from the latter vase one receives the vase empowerment related to the creation stage.
Garchen Rinpoche uses a bumpa with a deity card attached to it for the vase empowerment. If they use a second vase, it's not obvious. Unless it is the one they use to give purification water to the attendees. Thanks
It almost always is that vase, yes. You'll notice it's also used to bless the "gektor" or preliminary torma at the very beginning of many empowerments, as well.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Bumpa

Post by dzogchungpa » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:47 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:00 pm
And if Grace Jones was receiving an empowerment she would say ...

Dude, I can't believe you went there ...
Taking the attitude that the phenomenal world is sacred is the first and last practice of all. - Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: Bumpa

Post by PuerAzaelis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:47 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:47 pm
PuerAzaelis wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:00 pm
And if Grace Jones was receiving an empowerment she would say ...

Dude, I can't believe you went there ...
Sorry, sorry, I figure I am already bound for hell anyway ...

:)
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

tomfelt
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Re: Bumpa

Post by tomfelt » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:45 pm

This is not for empowerment, just for my home shrine. My lama is not in town often and then very busy with lots of supplicants, so I feel awkward asking him about this--it seems rather superficial.

Dzoki, does one obtain bumzey from one's lama, or is there a recipe?

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Malcolm
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:46 pm

tomfelt wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:45 pm
This is not for empowerment, just for my home shrine. My lama is not in town often and then very busy with lots of supplicants, so I feel awkward asking him about this--it seems rather superficial.

Dzoki, does one obtain bumzey from one's lama, or is there a recipe?
You don't need a Bumpa for your home shrine, unless a lama is coming to bless your house.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

pemachophel
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Re: Bumpa

Post by pemachophel » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Tom, Bum-dze can be purchased from www.potalagate.com run by Lama Jigme in Oregon.

I differ in opinion with Loppon about having a bumpa at home. This is a good part of your shrine, although not indispensable. Perhaps Loppon was thinking that one needs to know how to consecrate the bumpa, not just put bum-dze in it. Consecrating it is best, but you can also just use pure water. For instance, if you don't have a bumpa, you can just use a glass of water with a flower stalk or even just a stalk of greenery in it. Lacking even a flower or a stalk of greenery, you can use a spoon. The idea/practice of purifying one's offerings with water is a good one, Lama or "layperson."

For instance, when you say RAM, you can wave a stick of lit incense over your offerings, the incense symbolizing fire burning away impurities. Then you can wave a peacock feather/s and/or kusha grass over your offerings, blowing away the ashes of impurity when you say YAM, and finally, when you say KHAM, you can sprinkle your offerings with water. Then OM, AH, HUNG etc.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Lingpupa
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Lingpupa » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:35 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:46 pm
You don't need a Bumpa for your home shrine, unless a lama is coming to bless your house.

True, no doubt, for most people, but you could be doing a practice with vase generation, when you should really have one. But by the time you get to that stage, you would probably have learnt what you need to know about it.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

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Malcolm
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Re: Bumpa

Post by Malcolm » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:57 pm

Lingpupa wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:35 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:46 pm
You don't need a Bumpa for your home shrine, unless a lama is coming to bless your house.

True, no doubt, for most people, but you could be doing a practice with vase generation, when you should really have one. But by the time you get to that stage, you would probably have learnt what you need to know about it.
If you are doing practices that involve vase generation, you basically are a lama.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


The knowledge imparted through the guru’s instructions that formerly was unknown (avidyā) is vidyā.


—Treasury of the Supreme Vehicle, Longchenpa.

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conebeckham
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Re: Bumpa

Post by conebeckham » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:21 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:57 pm
Lingpupa wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:35 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:46 pm
You don't need a Bumpa for your home shrine, unless a lama is coming to bless your house.

True, no doubt, for most people, but you could be doing a practice with vase generation, when you should really have one. But by the time you get to that stage, you would probably have learnt what you need to know about it.
If you are doing practices that involve vase generation, you basically are a lama.

I've noted that in many Tibetan households you'll find a bumpa on the shrine, which laypeople use for "Chab" (blessing the daily shrine offerings in the morning). Of course, if one understands the actual procedure for such things, one should know the Vase Generation practice, including the blessing and visualization for the Activity Vase prior to blessing offerings, etc. I suppose it's a cultural thing, and many who have vases don't actually do the vase generation, but I can't know in every specific case. Certainly, in most Sarma Drupchos, the BumKye phases are done by all practitioners, Lamas and disciples both--but the Loppon holds the ZungTak. And of course the ultimate reason for the BumKye is to bestow empowerment, whether on others, or on oneself. Whether one is "allowed" to do Dak Zhuk, but not empower others, would be a more appropriate dividing line between "lamas" and Sadhakas, I think.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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