Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

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mechashivaz
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Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by mechashivaz » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:56 pm

Where is Sakyamuni Buddha? After He passed into parinirvana is He said to have taken abode in any celestial realm? After all, we are in His pure land right now so how does the tradition understand Him actively helping sentient beings other than through the established teachings?

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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:52 pm

He's right in front of you, always. A Buddha's mind pervades all phenomena.

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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Ricky » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:06 pm

mechashivaz wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:56 pm
Where is Sakyamuni Buddha? After He passed into parinirvana is He said to have taken abode in any celestial realm? After all, we are in His pure land right now so how does the tradition understand Him actively helping sentient beings other than through the established teachings?
Celestial realm? I doubt it.

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Queequeg
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Queequeg » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:35 pm

Using skillful means
I have manifested the state of nirvana
To bring sentient beings to this path;
Yet I have not actually entered nirvana,
But continually abide here expounding the Dharma.
Although I am always among these erring beings,
With my transcendent powers,
I prevent them from seeing me.
The sentient beings,
Seeing me enter perfect extinction
Earnestly revere my relics
And, filled with longing,
Yearn for me.
When the sentient beings become
Sincere, mild, and receptive,
And, wanting wholeheartedly to meet the Buddha,
Are willing to give unsparingly
Of their bodies and lives,
Then I, together with the sangha,
Will appear on Mount Gṛdhrakūṭa.
Life Span Chapter of the Lotus Sutra
Those who, even with distracted minds,
Entered a stupa compound
And chanted but once, “Namo Buddhaya!”
Have certainly attained the path of the buddhas.

-Saddharmapundarikasutra, Upaya Chapter

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mechashivaz
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by mechashivaz » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:04 am

Thanks for the responses, they explain as I have already understood, just wasn't sure if there was any reference to Shakyamuni acting as other Buddhas and their pure lands. Not sure how it fits into the trikaya system tho. Would it be said Shakyamuni doesn't act through a specific nirmanakaya or sambhogakaya form but acts within dharmakaya? I understand them all to be inseparable, so that a yogi who abides in realization of dharmakaya would also be a nirmanakaya, tho not Shakyamuni's nirmanakaya. Just as Padmakara is considered a nirmanakaya of Amitabha and not all nirmanakaya are an emanation of Amitabha. So using the trikaya system, I understand Shakyamuni was a nirmankaya in His incarnation and not sure how His sambhogakaya manifessted or how either of them currently do or if they do.

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:21 am

I'll give my responses, which will hopefully provoke someone more knowledgeable than myself to correct them.
mechashivaz wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:04 am
Would it be said Shakyamuni doesn't act through a specific nirmanakaya or sambhogakaya form but acts within dharmakaya?
My understanding is that Shakyamuni was a Nirmanakaya and passed into parinirvana some ~2500 years ago. I believe in some of the sutras where Shakyamuni refers to being enlightened eons ago, it's basically Shakyamuni Nirmanakaya speaking from the perspective of the Dharmakaya. I could be wrong and some others might disagree with me.
mechashivaz wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:04 am
So using the trikaya system, I understand Shakyamuni was a nirmankaya in His incarnation and not sure how His sambhogakaya manifessted or how either of them currently do or if they do.
As far as I understand, the Sambhogakaya Buddhas who taught the tantras (Manjushri, Chenrezig, and Vajrapani) in some sense are Shakyamuni Buddha. This might be relating back to the Dharmakaya again, and the inseparability of the three kayas. What I do know is that Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal wrote in a commentary to the Guhyagarbha Tantra that Shakyamuni was like the lightbulb that first turned on that made it possible for all of these other Rupakaya emanations to benefit beings. Without Shakyamuni manifesting enlightenment in this world, there would be no Manjushri, Chenrezig, and Vajrapani teaching tantras in the heaven realms.

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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Tolya M » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:36 am

Abodes of buddhas are aryavahara, divyavihara or brahmavihara. So Sakyamuni is in one of these abodes now for only nirmanakaya passes into parinirvana.

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bokki
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by bokki » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:30 pm

LOL
thank you!
where is shakya?
in front of u? lol
some nice knowledge displayed too, thank you! lol
but, thats hardly a serious question..
how bout..how bout..
WHAT IS SHAKYA DOING?, there, wherever he is?
lol
how bout.. how bout..
i heard he is a king of a buddhist kingdom now..
where is that kingdom?
or even, is he really?
lol
philosophers.
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burst into flames.
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Fortyeightvows
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:12 am

isn't he in the heaven of 33?

jhanapeacock
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by jhanapeacock » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:20 am

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:21 am
I'll give my responses, which will hopefully provoke someone more knowledgeable than myself to correct them.
mechashivaz wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:04 am
Would it be said Shakyamuni doesn't act through a specific nirmanakaya or sambhogakaya form but acts within dharmakaya?
My understanding is that Shakyamuni was a Nirmanakaya and passed into parinirvana some ~2500 years ago. I believe in some of the sutras where Shakyamuni refers to being enlightened eons ago, it's basically Shakyamuni Nirmanakaya speaking from the perspective of the Dharmakaya. I could be wrong and some others might disagree with me.
mechashivaz wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:04 am
So using the trikaya system, I understand Shakyamuni was a nirmankaya in His incarnation and not sure how His sambhogakaya manifessted or how either of them currently do or if they do.
As far as I understand, the Sambhogakaya Buddhas who taught the tantras (Manjushri, Chenrezig, and Vajrapani) in some sense are Shakyamuni Buddha. This might be relating back to the Dharmakaya again, and the inseparability of the three kayas. What I do know is that Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal wrote in a commentary to the Guhyagarbha Tantra that Shakyamuni was like the lightbulb that first turned on that made it possible for all of these other Rupakaya emanations to benefit beings. Without Shakyamuni manifesting enlightenment in this world, there would be no Manjushri, Chenrezig, and Vajrapani teaching tantras in the heaven realms.
As far as i know, when Shakyamuni refers to being enlightened eons ago he is talking about the Sambhogakaya, not the Dharmakaya.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:13 pm

This question is based on a conventional, relative point of view.
But the topic is ultimate. So, conventional terminology won't answer it.
Where is his body? Where is his mind? Where was it five minutes ago?
Buddhist perfect enlightenment goes beyond ordinary concepts of existence and non-existence, of being and non-being.

Let's start with the concept of "location" or proximity.
What is the nature of "location"? We think of location as relative: "Where is Sakyamuni Buddha in relation to where I am now?"
But understanding the emptiness (sunyata) of phenomena, we see that relative proximity is completely subjective, non-substantial, merely a conditionally-arising appearance.
As it is with space, it is likewise with time.
So, we could also ask, "When is Sakyamuni Buddha?" Is he now, is he previous?
But understanding the emptiness (sunyata) of phenomena, we see that all notions of time are also completely subjective, non-substantial, merely a conditionally-arising appearance.
And then, we can look at how much of Sakyamuni is simply conceptual to begin with:
the legends and mythos describing the life of an ex-prince in Nepal 2500 years ago.
Then, we can look at some of that concept: Are there cognizant Buddhas, who, with some kind of definition of consciousness see and hear sentient beings? Is Buddha watching you? But, even these concepts are reflections of our own experience of the appearance of a continuous, intrinsically existing self. We think of buddhas and bodhisattvas as being "real" or not being "real" compared to our own sense of ourselves as being "real" or not being "real".

I think, the best answer is, "where am I?".
If that question is pondered long enough, I think where Sakyamuni is becomes understood.
The question itself may not be answered but the answer will be understood.
.
.
.
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
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bokki
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by bokki » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:34 pm

well, padma, u sure have nailed it...
maybe, some should reread your words...
it is my honor 2 meet u...
ill b asking questions, u know that? ima zennie...
we r all dwarfs in bhuddhaland...lol
but,, thnx 4 good words
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain,
burst into flames.
- Linda Anderson
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PeterC
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by PeterC » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:11 am

mechashivaz wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:56 pm
Where is Sakyamuni Buddha? After He passed into parinirvana is He said to have taken abode in any celestial realm? After all, we are in His pure land right now so how does the tradition understand Him actively helping sentient beings other than through the established teachings?
Ask Vacchagotta.

Soma999
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Soma999 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:25 am

He merged with true nature. That is he is everywhere. He melted with the universe and above. And he is part of us all. And he can takes any form.

You can find him in a flower. In a sutra. In the warmth of the sun. And in your own heart.

As with all true Gurus who also merged with the the essence of everything.

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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by PadmaVonSamba » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:03 am

The thought occurred to me this morning:
Q."Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?"
A. "Practice, and find out for yourself!"
:lol:
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.

Ricky
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Ricky » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:19 am

PadmaVonSamba wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:03 am
The thought occurred to me this morning:
Q."Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?"
A. "Practice, and find out for yourself!"
:lol:
:thumbsup:

odysseus
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by odysseus » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:26 am

Where is Shakyamuni Buddha?

He is mostly in Nirvana, but he appears to people on Earth via a dimension door in our solar system. But he is not omnipotent like a creator-god.

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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by Dharma Flower » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:58 am

mechashivaz wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:56 pm
Where is Sakyamuni Buddha? After He passed into parinirvana is He said to have taken abode in any celestial realm?
What about what Nagarjuna wrote about it?
The Madhyamaka school of Nagarjuna includes the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā text which includes:

To say "it is" is to grasp for permanence. To say "it is not" is to adopt the view of nihilism. Therefore a wise person does not say "exists" or "does not exist." (Mūlamadhyamakakārikā 15.10)

Nagarjuna attempts to explain how the answer does not lie in any of the four possibilities listed above. The language we use frames our conventional reality. Beneath that there is an ultimate reality, such as the condition of the enlightened dead person. One can experience this directly in certain meditative states, but one cannot describe it. To say anything about it would merely succeed in making it part of our conventional reality; it is, therefore, ineffable. In particular, one cannot describe it by using any of the four possibilities furnished by the catuskoti (four possibilities). (Graham Priest, 2014)
https://dhammawiki.com/index.php?title= ... #Nagarjuna

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mechashivaz
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by mechashivaz » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:35 am

Thanks to all for the insights you've offered!

odysseus
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Re: Where is Sakyamuni Buddha?

Post by odysseus » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:20 am

Beneath that there is an ultimate reality,
"Ultimate reality" is a moronic idea, it just means some type of a common truth which is valid for everyone. The "ultimate truth" is that there exists only "the one and only, singular" reality in the Universe.

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