Santa La Muerte

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
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cyril
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by cyril » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:20 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:13 pm
Is death a blessing?
Most often probably not. But the urge to contemplate impermanence, death and all that it entails, can defintely be a blessing provided that you stick to the right view.
"You have to make the good out of the bad because that is all you have got to make it out of."
- Robert Penn Warren -

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:31 pm

Mantra and pujas are not about feelings. Its wise to have a foundational understanding of Dharma before practicing mantra, IMO.

BTW, in Mexico she us referred to as La Santa Muerte. People feel very strong about her whether in favor or not. This spirit has no connection to Buddhadharma. She is frequently called upon in brujaria (witchcraft). Praying to worldly spirits is only asking for problems.

pemachophel
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by pemachophel » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:02 pm

Tenma,

Because you have mentioned suicidal thoughts, I strongly advise you to see your guidance counsellor at school ASAP. (I am surprised that no one else on this forum has made this suggestion.) As a retired doctor, this is not something to be taken lightly. I think you may need psychological counseling.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

Tenma
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:58 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:02 pm
Tenma,

Because you have mentioned suicidal thoughts, I strongly advise you to see your guidance counsellor at school ASAP. (I am surprised that no one else on this forum has made this suggestion.) As a retired doctor, this is not something to be taken lightly. I think you may need psychological counseling.
I only have it sometimes in meditation. Nothing in worldly or student life. Just meditation only.

pemachophel
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by pemachophel » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:34 am

Tenma,

My advice still stands.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

Motova
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:38 am

Motova wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:04 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:00 pm
Tenma,

I've bit my tongue for a while now when reading your posts. Buddhadharma is not a fantasy game. Please either work directly under a Teacher or content yourself for the time being simply reading sutras. As stated above, you're gonna get hurt. Several others have already made this recommendation to you. Please take it to heart.
:good:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Lhasa
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Lhasa » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:26 am

climb-up wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:41 pm
TENMA!!!! This sounds like the question you've been hinting at the whole time!!! :smile:

Has all your talk about dharmaphalas and Santa Muerte been because you are looking for ways to stay safe practicing?
That is, of course, a super-legit question and certainly wouldn't get all the difficult reactions you're getting.

Lama Tsultrim Allione also gives lung for the 21 Taras through webcasts.
There are many ways to reach worldly aims through Buddhist practices, and many resources for receiving lung on webcasts. I think also, even from a Buddhist perspective, it's also fine to work with worldly spirits for worldly aims as long as you recognize them as such and don't take refuge in them.

Open Webcast Transmission with Lama Tsultrim Allione - January 7

Dear Tara Mandala Community,

On Sunday, January 7th Lama Tsultrim Allione will offer our Open Webcast Transmission event. During this free LIVE webcast, she offers the Oral Transmission (rLung) for three of the core practices in the Tara Mandala community:

• The practice of Green Tara from the Ösel Dorje Sangdzö.
• The Riwo Sangchöd practice from the Rigdzin Sogdrub.
• The Chöd practice of Chögyal Namkha'i Norbu Rinpoche.

Webcast Access Information

Time: Sunday, January 7th, 10am Mountain Time
(9am Pacific Time/12 noon Eastern Time)*
*Click here for time-zone conversion, to find the event time in your area.
Location: Click here
Duration: 45 mins
https://taramandala.us1.list-manage.com ... 347e4faed4
Open Webcast Transmission with Lama Tsultrim Allione

On January 7th, please click on the link above (or the button below) to view the webcast. We suggest visiting this page at least 5 minutes before the webcast is scheduled to begin. If the stream has not started by 10am, please be sure to refresh your page. If it still doesn't work, feel free to email support@taramandala.org for technical guidance.

Click Here on January 7th to Access Webcast

Transmission

Transmission from teacher to student is one of the cornerstones of Tibetan Buddhism, maintaining a direct, unbroken Dharma lineage from the time of the Buddha. The blessings of the lineage masters are passed along to the student with the authorization to engage in the practice, creating the auspicious interdependence necessary for authentic accomplishments to ripen. As such, to receive any kind of transmission from an authorized lineage holder should be treated as a very special and sacred occurrence. In ancient times, notice of such events would be shared discreetly through secret language about traversing the paths. Today, we are blessed with the ability to benefit countless beings through the interconnectivity of the "cyberdhatu". We ask that only those with a sincere interest in studying and engaging in the practice of the above teachings attend the transmission in order to maintain continuity and respect for the lineage.

Teachings & Practice

Once you receive transmission, you will be authorized to access explanatory teachings (Tri) on these practices and to do them on your own. Tara Mandala Online currently offers cutting-edge online programs to guide students in detail through each of the three practices.

For personal guidance in your area, you can contact a local Tara Mandala Satellite Sangha. Tara Mandala also holds retreats on our 700-acre land. For a deeper connection to the lineage and in person retreat opportunities, please be sure to check out Tara Mandala Retreat Center's schedule for our our onsite offerings.

Dana

There is no charge for this transmission event. You will have an opportunity to make a DONATION to Tara Mandala Online Programs to cover operating and administrative costs, and to offer dana directly to Lama Tsultrim. Both of these donations are optional, and NO ONE will be turned away for lack of funds.

Please click on this link to offer dana to Lama Tsultrim

About Lama Tsultrim Allione

Lama Tsultrim Allione

Lama Tsultrim Allione is founder and resident lama of Tara Mandala. She is author of Women of Wisdom and Feeding Your Demons. Born in New England to an academic/publishing family, she traveled to India in her late teens and was ordained as a Buddhist nun at the age of 22 … More →

For all inquires and technical assistance about this webcast, please contact support@taramandala.org.

We look forward to welcoming you on January 7th.

With Blessings,
Tara Mandala Online Programs


Copyright © 2017 Tara Mandala, All Rights Reserved.




Our mailing address is:
Tara Mandala
4000 USFS Rd. 649
PO Box 3040
Pagosa Springs, CO 81147

MiphamFan
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by MiphamFan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:30 am

Tenma, you seem to be very into occult/esoteric stuff.

I was deep into that stuff at around your age. One difference is that I never liked the idea of worshipping spirits, I preferred reading the grimoires -- I even tried to get the equipment to perform the rites.

Honestly I feel like it is all a waste of time. Why do you want magic? You want it to get powers, to do better in life.

As far as I can see, 99% of people involved in the occult community are mediocrities; they constantly encounter problems in their lives, try to curse other people, etc. Those who are "successful" to some degree, I don't find that their success is much more so than an "ordinary" person who has some intelligence and works hard -- they might have more interesting stories to tell I guess. Maybe the wildly successful occultists keep things quiet while the mediocrities like to tell the world about their issues, I don't know, but in any case, occultism is not a path for success.

If you want to be successful, work hard at school, do deliberate practice, meditate.

DGA
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by DGA » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:43 am

Going back to the OP...
Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:26 pm
What are the views of the "new saint," Santa La Muerte? Right now, people are putting up a statue of her in a park nearby and I would like to ask the Buddhist view of the personification of death. Is she worldly or Not? She personifies death, but is based off of an Aztec death goddess who seems to be similar to Yama's sister. Do these death deities like Yama give obstacles(apart from death) and are worldly? If so, what practice can I do to ward off this negative presence?
Just avoid. Don't get mixed up in this. Why?
TharpaChodron wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:55 am
Just my personal experience from living in South Central LA, she's a patron saint of the cartels, of drug dealers, of gangs, "Coyotes" and murderers. She can be converted to the Dharma, but as is, she is a dark figure.
Excellent advice here:
pemachophel wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:00 pm
Tenma,

I've bit my tongue for a while now when reading your posts. Buddhadharma is not a fantasy game. Please either work directly under a Teacher or content yourself for the time being simply reading sutras. As stated above, you're gonna get hurt. Several others have already made this recommendation to you. Please take it to heart.

climb-up
Posts: 354
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by climb-up » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:30 am

MiphamFan wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:30 am
Tenma, you seem to be very into occult/esoteric stuff.

I was deep into that stuff at around your age. One difference is that I never liked the idea of worshipping spirits, I preferred reading the grimoires -- I even tried to get the equipment to perform the rites.

Honestly I feel like it is all a waste of time. Why do you want magic? You want it to get powers, to do better in life.

As far as I can see, 99% of people involved in the occult community are mediocrities; they constantly encounter problems in their lives, try to curse other people, etc. Those who are "successful" to some degree, I don't find that their success is much more so than an "ordinary" person who has some intelligence and works hard -- they might have more interesting stories to tell I guess. Maybe the wildly successful occultists keep things quiet while the mediocrities like to tell the world about their issues, I don't know, but in any case, occultism is not a path for success.

If you want to be successful, work hard at school, do deliberate practice, meditate.
As an occultist I feel like I should correct you here...
...but I can't really. I think you pretty much right. Lol.

I think many people who really are wildly successful in worldly matters do in fact use the types of practices that occultists use (sometimes unconsciously, but very often consciously) but don't usually self-identify as occultists.
Many occultists have supremely messed up lives. It's hard to say if that's because of occultism, or if that's why they are drawn to it (a fascinating question IMO).
Worldly success does seem to be higher among new thought groups, for whatever that's worth.

Many people who get deep into occultism also begin to develop other interests than worldly success.
Paraphrasing one occultist, 'once you've achieved a certain amount of worldly success and realized that the external can be changed according to your will, it's kind of a mistake to keep thinking it really exists!' Which of course leads to...

...the dharma! :buddha1: :buddha2:

DGA
Former staff member
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by DGA » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:35 am

pemachophel wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:02 pm
Tenma,

Because you have mentioned suicidal thoughts, I strongly advise you to see your guidance counsellor at school ASAP. (I am surprised that no one else on this forum has made this suggestion.) As a retired doctor, this is not something to be taken lightly. I think you may need psychological counseling.

^^THIS^^

Tenma
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:47 am

pemachophel wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:34 am
Tenma,

My advice still stands.
Even if telling a counselor is only going to result in more obstacles? I live in a very Christian society(or at least some form of faith in God) and I'm not risking myself being bullied nor punished for my belief in the dharma. Think I'll have to see my guru for it.

Tenma
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:49 am

Lhasa wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:26 am
climb-up wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:41 pm
TENMA!!!! This sounds like the question you've been hinting at the whole time!!! :smile:

Has all your talk about dharmaphalas and Santa Muerte been because you are looking for ways to stay safe practicing?
That is, of course, a super-legit question and certainly wouldn't get all the difficult reactions you're getting.

Lama Tsultrim Allione also gives lung for the 21 Taras through webcasts.
There are many ways to reach worldly aims through Buddhist practices, and many resources for receiving lung on webcasts. I think also, even from a Buddhist perspective, it's also fine to work with worldly spirits for worldly aims as long as you recognize them as such and don't take refuge in them.

Open Webcast Transmission with Lama Tsultrim Allione - January 7

Dear Tara Mandala Community,

On Sunday, January 7th Lama Tsultrim Allione will offer our Open Webcast Transmission event. During this free LIVE webcast, she offers the Oral Transmission (rLung) for three of the core practices in the Tara Mandala community:

• The practice of Green Tara from the Ösel Dorje Sangdzö.
• The Riwo Sangchöd practice from the Rigdzin Sogdrub.
• The Chöd practice of Chögyal Namkha'i Norbu Rinpoche.

Webcast Access Information

Time: Sunday, January 7th, 10am Mountain Time
(9am Pacific Time/12 noon Eastern Time)*
*Click here for time-zone conversion, to find the event time in your area.
Location: Click here
Duration: 45 mins
https://taramandala.us1.list-manage.com ... 347e4faed4
Open Webcast Transmission with Lama Tsultrim Allione

On January 7th, please click on the link above (or the button below) to view the webcast. We suggest visiting this page at least 5 minutes before the webcast is scheduled to begin. If the stream has not started by 10am, please be sure to refresh your page. If it still doesn't work, feel free to email support@taramandala.org for technical guidance.

Click Here on January 7th to Access Webcast

Transmission

Transmission from teacher to student is one of the cornerstones of Tibetan Buddhism, maintaining a direct, unbroken Dharma lineage from the time of the Buddha. The blessings of the lineage masters are passed along to the student with the authorization to engage in the practice, creating the auspicious interdependence necessary for authentic accomplishments to ripen. As such, to receive any kind of transmission from an authorized lineage holder should be treated as a very special and sacred occurrence. In ancient times, notice of such events would be shared discreetly through secret language about traversing the paths. Today, we are blessed with the ability to benefit countless beings through the interconnectivity of the "cyberdhatu". We ask that only those with a sincere interest in studying and engaging in the practice of the above teachings attend the transmission in order to maintain continuity and respect for the lineage.

Teachings & Practice

Once you receive transmission, you will be authorized to access explanatory teachings (Tri) on these practices and to do them on your own. Tara Mandala Online currently offers cutting-edge online programs to guide students in detail through each of the three practices.

For personal guidance in your area, you can contact a local Tara Mandala Satellite Sangha. Tara Mandala also holds retreats on our 700-acre land. For a deeper connection to the lineage and in person retreat opportunities, please be sure to check out Tara Mandala Retreat Center's schedule for our our onsite offerings.

Dana

There is no charge for this transmission event. You will have an opportunity to make a DONATION to Tara Mandala Online Programs to cover operating and administrative costs, and to offer dana directly to Lama Tsultrim. Both of these donations are optional, and NO ONE will be turned away for lack of funds.

Please click on this link to offer dana to Lama Tsultrim

About Lama Tsultrim Allione

Lama Tsultrim Allione

Lama Tsultrim Allione is founder and resident lama of Tara Mandala. She is author of Women of Wisdom and Feeding Your Demons. Born in New England to an academic/publishing family, she traveled to India in her late teens and was ordained as a Buddhist nun at the age of 22 … More →

For all inquires and technical assistance about this webcast, please contact support@taramandala.org.

We look forward to welcoming you on January 7th.

With Blessings,
Tara Mandala Online Programs


Copyright © 2017 Tara Mandala, All Rights Reserved.




Our mailing address is:
Tara Mandala
4000 USFS Rd. 649
PO Box 3040
Pagosa Springs, CO 81147
Thank you!
I would also like to ask, did or do you have any Yangchenma empowerments(2nd Tara)? I would like to connect more with Saraswati, thank you.

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:16 am

I have never heard of meditation creating suicidal thoughts. What kind of meditation are you doing? Are you first generating bodhicitta?

Tenma
Posts: 370
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:19 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:16 am
I have never heard of meditation creating suicidal thoughts. What kind of meditation are you doing? Are you first generating bodhicitta?
Yes, but during samadhi, it goes wrong. All things are delusions, but the idea of the body being a delusion sometimes gives the idea of suicide and no point in life.

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Konchog1
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Konchog1 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:16 am

since you should not even hold worldly deities such as Rudra and Visnu as your ultimate refuge, what need be said about nagas and the local divinities who are hungry ghosts?
-The Great Treatise on the Stages of the Path to Enlightenment eng v01 pg. 194 tib pg. 144
in other words, when you think of how to distinguish between what should be your refuge and what should not, you will want to take refuge in the Buddha, the teacher of Buddhism, in his teachings, and in those who abide by his teachings. The average worldly person seeks refuge in worldly creatures - gods, nagas, spirits, and so forth. Non-Buddhists seek refuge in Brahma, Indra, etc. but these themselves are beings in samsara so they are not fitting refuges.

[...]

the only refuge is the Three Jewels: Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, But if we do not identity these three properly, we will not take refuge properly. [..] when things go wrong [...] we seek refuge in [...] local gods. All this external actively indicates our inner state. Buddhists should entrust themselves to Three Jewels. We may have actually gained admittance to a monastery, but we do not even qualify to be Buddhists, let alone Mahayana knowledge-bearers.

[..]

There is no worse method we could use than to rely on [spirits]. What could be worse than to seek refuge in them. [...] they can never be trusted.
-Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand pgs. 396-397 (you should read the whole section and book actually)

You are acting like a black magician, not a Buddhist.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats

amanitamusc
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by amanitamusc » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:26 am

Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:19 am
Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:16 am
I have never heard of meditation creating suicidal thoughts. What kind of meditation are you doing? Are you first generating bodhicitta?
Yes, but during samadhi, it goes wrong. All things are delusions, but the idea of the body being a delusion sometimes gives the idea of suicide and no point in life.
!
You are fixating on thoughts that arise in meditation .This is useless.

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Vasana
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Vasana » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:11 am

Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:19 am
Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:16 am
I have never heard of meditation creating suicidal thoughts. What kind of meditation are you doing? Are you first generating bodhicitta?
Yes, but during samadhi, it goes wrong. All things are delusions, but the idea of the body being a delusion sometimes gives the idea of suicide and no point in life.

Others have already recommended speaking to a councillor so i won't go there again. Are you absolutely sure your suicidal thought is purely the result of thinking about the idea of the body being an illusion?

If so and if his has happened mutliple times then don't you think it should be an extremely high priority of yours to learn what the Dharma *actually* says about the body and it's central role in being able to hear, practice and realize the dharma? This is why study is so important in the beginning. If you think the teachings on illusion conclude with the justification of suicide, then you have developed a nihilistic view of emptiness. This is a wrong view, Tenma. The middle way is neither nihlistic nor eternalistic.

Please read;

Eighteen freedoms and advantages

Eighteen freedoms and advantages (Wyl. dal 'byor bco brgyad) — the eight freedoms and ten advantages which characterize a 'precious human birth'.

The Eight Freedoms

Freedom from the eight states where there is no opportunity to practise the Dharma:
  • hells
    preta realms
    animals
    long-living gods
    uncivilized lands
    incomplete faculties
    with wrong views
    a buddha has not come
Commentary

Chökyi Drakpa says:

"Firstly, if you were born in the hell, preta or animal realms, you would suffer from intense heat and cold, from hunger and thirst, or from enslavement, and it would be impossible for you to practise the Dharma. If you were born amongst the long-living gods, it would also be impossible because you would not have any thought of practising the Dharma. The Buddha’s teachings are not found in uncivilized lands of the border regions, so living there is also an impossible state. Those with wrong views do not have any possibility of practising the Dharma because their minds are contaminated by false beliefs, and they are just like Devadatta or Lekpé Karma. If you were born in a world where a buddha had not come, or during a dark kalpa, it would be impossible because even the words “Three Jewels” would be unknown. If you were born incapable of understanding, it would be impossible to practise the Dharma because you would not be able to understand the meaning of the teachings. When you have a physical body that is free from these 'eight states where there is no chance for Dharma practice', it is known as possessing a support for Dharma practice complete with the eight freedoms."

The Ten Advantages
The Five Circumstantial Advantages

  • a buddha has come
    he has taught the Dharma
    the teachings have survived
    there are followers of the teachings
    there are favourable conditions for Dharma practice
Chökyi Drakpa writes:

For the five advantages due to circumstances to be present, a buddha must have come into the world, an event as rare as the appearance of an Udumbara flower; he must have taught the three wheels of Dharma; and the teachings must have survived without fading. There must be extraordinary friends who have embraced the teachings; and a master or a spiritual friend must have accepted you. These five are known as 'the five advantages due to circumstances'.

The Five Personal Advantages
  • being a human being
    born in a central land
    with faculties intact
    lifestyle not harmful or wrong
    with faith in the three pitakas
Chökyi Drakpa says:

Being born as a human being means that you have a proper physical support for practising the Dharma. Having all five faculties intact means you can study the teachings and contemplate them. In a central land means to be born in a place where the teachings are available. A lifestyle that is not harmful or wrong means that your body, speech and mind are in harmony with the Dharma. Having faith in Buddha’s teachings means recognizing that they provide a special path leading to freedom from samsara, and a state which surpasses the situation of the worldly gods. When you possess these five endowments, 'the five personal advantages' are said to be complete.

Emphasis mine,
http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... advantages
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Fortyeightvows
Posts: 1728
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:50 am

climb-up wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:30 am
MiphamFan wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:30 am
Tenma, you seem to be very into occult/esoteric stuff.

I was deep into that stuff at around your age. One difference is that I never liked the idea of worshipping spirits, I preferred reading the grimoires -- I even tried to get the equipment to perform the rites.

Honestly I feel like it is all a waste of time. Why do you want magic? You want it to get powers, to do better in life.

As far as I can see, 99% of people involved in the occult community are mediocrities; they constantly encounter problems in their lives, try to curse other people, etc. Those who are "successful" to some degree, I don't find that their success is much more so than an "ordinary" person who has some intelligence and works hard -- they might have more interesting stories to tell I guess. Maybe the wildly successful occultists keep things quiet while the mediocrities like to tell the world about their issues, I don't know, but in any case, occultism is not a path for success.

If you want to be successful, work hard at school, do deliberate practice, meditate.
As an occultist I feel like I should correct you here...
...but I can't really. I think you pretty much right. Lol.

I think many people who really are wildly successful in worldly matters do in fact use the types of practices that occultists use (sometimes unconsciously, but very often consciously) but don't usually self-identify as occultists.
Many occultists have supremely messed up lives. It's hard to say if that's because of occultism, or if that's why they are drawn to it (a fascinating question IMO).
Worldly success does seem to be higher among new thought groups, for whatever that's worth.

Many people who get deep into occultism also begin to develop other interests than worldly success.
Paraphrasing one occultist, 'once you've achieved a certain amount of worldly success and realized that the external can be changed according to your will, it's kind of a mistake to keep thinking it really exists!' Which of course leads to...

...the dharma! :buddha1: :buddha2:
What make one an occulist?

Prayer? Ritual? : Thats most religions already.
Consulting astrology or geomancy? : lots of successful people do that.

Kaung
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:04 am
Location: Yangon Burma

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Kaung » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:54 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:16 am
I have never heard of meditation creating suicidal thoughts. What kind of meditation are you doing? Are you first generating bodhicitta?
It may be not be a thing for most of us but it’s very real for some practitioners.I’ve personally heard of a meditator who did just that.Though it’s hard to know what he was thinking back then.And it seems such a thing did happen during the Buddha’s time.

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Vesali in the Great Wood, at the Gabled Hall. Now on that occasion the Blessed One, with many lines of reasoning, was giving the monks a talk on the unattractiveness [of the body], was speaking in praise of [the perception of] unattractiveness, was speaking in praise of the development of [the perception of] unattractiveness. Then the Blessed One addressed the monks: "Monks, I wish to go into seclusion for half a month. I am not to be approached by anyone at all except for the one who brings almsfood."

"As you say, lord," the monks responded to him. And no one approached the Blessed One except for the one who brought almsfood.

Then the monks — [thinking,] "The Blessed One, with many lines of reasoning, has given a talk on the unattractiveness [of the body], has spoken in praise of [the perception of] unattractiveness, has spoken in praise of the development of [the perception of] unattractiveness" — remained committed to the development of [the perception of] unattractiveness in many modes & manners. They — ashamed, repelled, & disgusted with this body — sought for an assassin. In one day, ten monks took the knife. In one day, twenty monks took the knife. In one day, thirty monks took the knife.

Then the Blessed One, emerging from his seclusion after half a month's time, said to Ven. Ananda, "Ananda, why does the community of monks seem so depleted?"

"Because, lord, the Blessed One, with many lines of reasoning, gave the monks a talk on the unattractiveness [of the body], spoke in praise of [the perception of] unattractiveness, spoke in praise of the development of [the perception of] unattractiveness. The monks — [thinking,] 'The Blessed One, with many lines of reasoning, has given a talk on the unattractiveness [of the body], has spoken in praise of [the perception of] unattractiveness, has spoken in praise of the development of [the perception of] unattractiveness' — remained committed to the development of [the perception of] unattractiveness in many modes & manners. They — ashamed, repelled, & disgusted with this body — sought for an assassin. In one day, ten monks took the knife. In one day, twenty monks took the knife. In one day, thirty monks took the knife. It would be good, lord, if the Blessed One would explain another method so that this community of monks might be established in gnosis."

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