Santa La Muerte

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Mantrik
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Mantrik » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:59 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:50 am

What make one an occulist?
The need to 'hide' what you do because it is so goddam powerful mere mortals could not handle your awesomeness.

That, and being a teenager who likes black clothes or an adult with arrested development who likes Glastonbury cloaks and athames.

Hands up all those who went through an Occult phase before hitting Buddhism. ;)
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

MiphamFan
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by MiphamFan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:50 am
climb-up wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:30 am
MiphamFan wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:30 am
Tenma, you seem to be very into occult/esoteric stuff.

I was deep into that stuff at around your age. One difference is that I never liked the idea of worshipping spirits, I preferred reading the grimoires -- I even tried to get the equipment to perform the rites.

Honestly I feel like it is all a waste of time. Why do you want magic? You want it to get powers, to do better in life.

As far as I can see, 99% of people involved in the occult community are mediocrities; they constantly encounter problems in their lives, try to curse other people, etc. Those who are "successful" to some degree, I don't find that their success is much more so than an "ordinary" person who has some intelligence and works hard -- they might have more interesting stories to tell I guess. Maybe the wildly successful occultists keep things quiet while the mediocrities like to tell the world about their issues, I don't know, but in any case, occultism is not a path for success.

If you want to be successful, work hard at school, do deliberate practice, meditate.
As an occultist I feel like I should correct you here...
...but I can't really. I think you pretty much right. Lol.

I think many people who really are wildly successful in worldly matters do in fact use the types of practices that occultists use (sometimes unconsciously, but very often consciously) but don't usually self-identify as occultists.
Many occultists have supremely messed up lives. It's hard to say if that's because of occultism, or if that's why they are drawn to it (a fascinating question IMO).
Worldly success does seem to be higher among new thought groups, for whatever that's worth.

Many people who get deep into occultism also begin to develop other interests than worldly success.
Paraphrasing one occultist, 'once you've achieved a certain amount of worldly success and realized that the external can be changed according to your will, it's kind of a mistake to keep thinking it really exists!' Which of course leads to...

...the dharma! :buddha1: :buddha2:
What make one an occulist?

Prayer? Ritual? : Thats most religions already.
Consulting astrology or geomancy? : lots of successful people do that.
Most religions have prayers, offerings (even Muslims and Christians, except Protestants), rituals. However, magic is always seen as something somewhat illicit, even if it calls on the same deities. It is often something done for personal or at least small-scale power (making rain, taming animals etc) rather than done for a community, as religion tends to be more often. Anyway it is very hard to define but even in Tibetan Buddhism, "official" grand rituals are still seen as somewhat different from things like rainmaking and other rites done by ngagpas.

Magic is also very often eclectic. Greek magical papyri could invoke Jesus and Jewish prophets in the same ritual as Egyptian deities. Tenma's interest in Santa Muerte is somewhat similar to that.

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Grigoris
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Grigoris » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:50 pm

Thank you to everybody for trying to answer to Tenma's queries. When answering to issues (and people) like Tenma's one always has to be cautious about what sort of language they use. Talking to a suicidal person about weapons or defining a confused person's spiritual meandering as witchcraft can cause a lot more harm than good, can ignite a smouldering fire.

I believe that Tenma has received some solid advice and decent pointers, now it is time for them to digest and apply them, if that is their goal.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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