Santa La Muerte

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:35 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:31 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:29 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:24 am
Well, I think it actually makes sense. Where we say "death" to refer to the general phenomenon of dying etc. the Spanish say "la muerte", not just "muerte".
But, traditionally, in all the rest of the saints, the name following their title is their name. Hence Santa Muerte. She is death.

It just makes the thing all the more sketchy. Like they couldn't even name her properly.

Its like if I said to you "You need to see the Dr. Doctor Briggs."
Or if I referred to Bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva.

Well, I don't see it that way, but perhaps we should leave it at that. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:36 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:29 am
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:24 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:13 am


Fair enough. It isn't Santa la Cristóbal or San la Cristóbal, though. I don't know why Saint Death gets special grammatical treatment in her paraguayan form.

Perhaps it's what all the young saints these days are doing.

Well, I think it actually makes sense. Where we say "death" to refer to the general phenomenon of dying etc. the Spanish say "la muerte", not just "muerte".
But, traditionally, in all the rest of the saints, the name following their title is their name. Hence Santa Muerte. She is death.

It just makes the thing all the more sketchy. Like they couldn't even name her properly.

Its like if I said to you "You need to see the Doctor Dr. Briggs."
In French from what I'm learning, it's a MUST in the language. Even when unnecessary, it's still required. So perhaps Spanish might have that as it's very close to French(but let the Spanish speaker correct it, I have no clue on Spanish language).
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Tenma
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:38 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:35 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:31 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:29 am


But, traditionally, in all the rest of the saints, the name following their title is their name. Hence Santa Muerte. She is death.

It just makes the thing all the more sketchy. Like they couldn't even name her properly.

Its like if I said to you "You need to see the Dr. Doctor Briggs."
Or if I referred to Bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva.

Well, I don't see it that way, but perhaps we should leave it at that. :smile:
Fair enough, so let it be. My apologies for all the anger and frustration that I may have stirred up from y'all being too attached to my ignorance. :stirthepot:
Merci beaucoup.
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:41 am

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:31 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:29 am


But, traditionally, in all the rest of the saints, the name following their title is their name. Hence Santa Muerte. She is death.

It just makes the thing all the more sketchy. Like they couldn't even name her properly.

Its like if I said to you "You need to see the Dr. Doctor Briggs."
Or if I referred to Bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva.
Muerte is not a name, which is what makes the difference (if there is a difference, which is unclear from the posts so far).
Is she a saint or not a saint, though?

It is clearer in English, where the distinction "holy" and "saint" are seperate, but in romance languages, they are the same word.

If she is "Santa X" in the sense of a saint, then X is her name. If she is "Santa X" in the sense that "She is X and X is santa (holy)" then that is another matter altogether. She is considered a 'saint' in the first sense though.

For instance, it doesn't really matter and I don't mean to carry the matter further, but "Santo Padre" is never called "Santo el Padre", and Padre is not a "name" in the same way that Muerte is not a "name".
Tenma wrote:In French from what I'm learning, it's a MUST in the language. Even when unnecessary, it's still required. So perhaps Spanish might have that as it's very close to French(but let the Spanish speaker correct it, I have no clue on Spanish language).
Its not required in this instance.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Aryjna » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:41 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:31 am


Or if I referred to Bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva.
Muerte is not a name, which is what makes the difference (if there is a difference, which is unclear from the posts so far).
Is she a saint or not a saint, though?

It is clearer in English, where the distinction "holy" and "saint" are seperate, but in romance languages, they are the same word.

If she is "Santa X" in the sense of a saint, then X is her name. If she is "Santa X" in the sense that "She is X and X is santa (holy)" then that is another matter altogether. She is considered a 'saint' in the first sense though.

For instance, it doesn't really matter and I don't mean to carry the matter further, but "Santo Padre" is never called "Santo el Padre", and Padre is not a "name" in the same way that Muerte is not a "name".
Tenma wrote:In French from what I'm learning, it's a MUST in the language. Even when unnecessary, it's still required. So perhaps Spanish might have that as it's very close to French(but let the Spanish speaker correct it, I have no clue on Spanish language).
Its not required in this instance.
According to wikipedia it is "Nuestra Señora de la Santa Muerte (Spanish for Our Lady of the Holy Death) or, colloquially, Santa Muerte (Holy Death)", which seems to suggest that calling her Santa Muerte is just using the last part of that phrase and not her actual name, so in any case not the same thing as other saints like San Cristobal etc.

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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Aryjna » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:48 am

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:41 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 am


Muerte is not a name, which is what makes the difference (if there is a difference, which is unclear from the posts so far).
Is she a saint or not a saint, though?

It is clearer in English, where the distinction "holy" and "saint" are seperate, but in romance languages, they are the same word.

If she is "Santa X" in the sense of a saint, then X is her name. If she is "Santa X" in the sense that "She is X and X is santa (holy)" then that is another matter altogether. She is considered a 'saint' in the first sense though.

For instance, it doesn't really matter and I don't mean to carry the matter further, but "Santo Padre" is never called "Santo el Padre", and Padre is not a "name" in the same way that Muerte is not a "name".
Tenma wrote:In French from what I'm learning, it's a MUST in the language. Even when unnecessary, it's still required. So perhaps Spanish might have that as it's very close to French(but let the Spanish speaker correct it, I have no clue on Spanish language).
Its not required in this instance.
According to wikipedia it is "Nuestra Señora de la Santa Muerte (Spanish for Our Lady of the Holy Death) or, colloquially, Santa Muerte (Holy Death)", which seems to suggest that calling her Santa Muerte is just using the last part of that phrase and not her actual name, so in any case not the same thing as other saints like San Cristobal etc.
Then again I may be wrong, don't really know any Spanish, I am just mildly curious about it after it was brought up in this thread.

Tenma
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:48 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:41 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:31 am


Or if I referred to Bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara Bodhisattva.
Muerte is not a name, which is what makes the difference (if there is a difference, which is unclear from the posts so far).
Is she a saint or not a saint, though?

It is clearer in English, where the distinction "holy" and "saint" are seperate, but in romance languages, they are the same word.

If she is "Santa X" in the sense of a saint, then X is her name. If she is "Santa X" in the sense that "She is X and X is santa (holy)" then that is another matter altogether. She is considered a 'saint' in the first sense though.

For instance, it doesn't really matter and I don't mean to carry the matter further, but "Santo Padre" is never called "Santo el Padre", and Padre is not a "name" in the same way that Muerte is not a "name".
Tenma wrote:In French from what I'm learning, it's a MUST in the language. Even when unnecessary, it's still required. So perhaps Spanish might have that as it's very close to French(but let the Spanish speaker correct it, I have no clue on Spanish language).
Its not required in this instance.
Well to some, she is a saint. Let's put it at that. And since this is Spanish, then my bad on the typing!
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:51 am

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am

According to wikipedia it is "Nuestra Señora de la Santa Muerte (Spanish for Our Lady of the Holy Death) or, colloquially, Santa Muerte (Holy Death)", which seems to suggest that calling her Santa Muerte is just using the last part of that phrase and not her actual name, so in any case not the same thing as other saints like San Cristobal etc.
All of the saints have huge titles like that. Even their apparitions get them, like Nuestra Señora de la Santa Cueva.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Aryjna » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:53 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:51 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am

According to wikipedia it is "Nuestra Señora de la Santa Muerte (Spanish for Our Lady of the Holy Death) or, colloquially, Santa Muerte (Holy Death)", which seems to suggest that calling her Santa Muerte is just using the last part of that phrase and not her actual name, so in any case not the same thing as other saints like San Cristobal etc.
All of the saints have huge titles like that. Even their apparitions get them, like Nuestra Señora de la Santa Cueva.
:D I suppose I was wrong then, my first post was just a possible explanation in case the guess someone else made regarding the use of the article in Spanish was correct. In this case, maybe it is San La Muerte that is the exception for a similar reason.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:01 am

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:53 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:51 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:45 am

According to wikipedia it is "Nuestra Señora de la Santa Muerte (Spanish for Our Lady of the Holy Death) or, colloquially, Santa Muerte (Holy Death)", which seems to suggest that calling her Santa Muerte is just using the last part of that phrase and not her actual name, so in any case not the same thing as other saints like San Cristobal etc.
All of the saints have huge titles like that. Even their apparitions get them, like Nuestra Señora de la Santa Cueva.
:D I suppose I was wrong then, my first post was just a possible explanation in case the guess someone else made regarding the use of the article in Spanish was correct. In this case, maybe it is San La Muerte that is the exception for a similar reason.
I just found "Santa La Maria" in Italian on the Internet. That should be similarly ungrammatical. I guess anything flies in this world! The grammar Nazis have been defeated!
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by conebeckham » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:06 am

Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:22 am
Norwegian wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:59 pm
Tenma wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:35 pm
Fair enough then. Guess even her followers aren't to be trusted. Then how do I escape? Or is there no need as I did dharmapala practice?
You constantly ask questions here but you never accept the answers. And you keep thinking you're qualified to do dharmapala practice. You're not. You haven't received empowerment, transmission, and instruction of them. And again, you asked a question about Santa La Muerte and people gave answers, and then you ignored the answers anyways and went off to pray to her.

Why should anybody care answering your questions again and give you advice when it's clear you don't care what people say? Honest question. It seems like a waste of time. I mean, just curious really.
Actually, there was an update on that. I was given permission to Palden Lhamo a month ago by Lama Kunga through phone. As for Simhamukha, here's where I found it(though I followed Lama Zopa Rinpoche's advice on frontal deity visualization rather than being the deity):
http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-mas ... simhamukha
So you're telling me that the Lotsawa House isn't to be trusted either nor my own guru?
I know Lama Kunga personally, and I have a hard time believing he would authorize someone to do an sort of Palden Lhamo practice via a phone authorization. I mean, perhaps he may have said it was okay to make offerings and recite a "solkha prayer" or something.

Also, Lotsawa House has some nice translations, but the mere fact that something is published on the internet doesn't give anyone permission to pratice.

I say this all in good faith, and with good intentions, Tenma. In fact, I recommend that you clarify some things with Lama Kunga Thartse Rinpoche, before proceeding further in any sort of worship of this "Santa La Muerte" or any other sort of "Saint" or divinity. If you want to PM me with personal info, I will ask Lama Kunga to clarify this for you.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Aryjna
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Aryjna » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:07 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:01 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:53 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:51 am


All of the saints have huge titles like that. Even their apparitions get them, like Nuestra Señora de la Santa Cueva.
:D I suppose I was wrong then, my first post was just a possible explanation in case the guess someone else made regarding the use of the article in Spanish was correct. In this case, maybe it is San La Muerte that is the exception for a similar reason.
I just found "Santa La Maria" in Italian on the Internet. That should be similarly ungrammatical. I guess anything flies in this world! The grammar Nazis have been defeated!
I will ask a native speaker out of curiosity, if I don't forget.

Tenma
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:10 am

conebeckham wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:06 am
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:22 am
Norwegian wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:59 pm

You constantly ask questions here but you never accept the answers. And you keep thinking you're qualified to do dharmapala practice. You're not. You haven't received empowerment, transmission, and instruction of them. And again, you asked a question about Santa La Muerte and people gave answers, and then you ignored the answers anyways and went off to pray to her.

Why should anybody care answering your questions again and give you advice when it's clear you don't care what people say? Honest question. It seems like a waste of time. I mean, just curious really.
Actually, there was an update on that. I was given permission to Palden Lhamo a month ago by Lama Kunga through phone. As for Simhamukha, here's where I found it(though I followed Lama Zopa Rinpoche's advice on frontal deity visualization rather than being the deity):
http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-mas ... simhamukha
So you're telling me that the Lotsawa House isn't to be trusted either nor my own guru?
I know Lama Kunga personally, and I have a hard time believing he would authorize someone to do an sort of Palden Lhamo practice via a phone authorization. I mean, perhaps he may have said it was okay to make offerings and recite a "solkha prayer" or something.

Also, Lotsawa House has some nice translations, but the mere fact that something is published on the internet doesn't give anyone permission to pratice.

I say this all in good faith, and with good intentions, Tenma. In fact, I recommend that you clarify some things with Lama Kunga Thartse Rinpoche, before proceeding further in any sort of worship of this "Santa La Muerte" or any other sort of "Saint" or divinity. If you want to PM me with personal info, I will ask Lama Kunga to clarify this for you.
Sure! Though I think I may have misunderstood him after hearing from what you said, perhaps I may need some reclarification(especially as I live WAY too far away for personal contact with him)? I'll PM you with more later.
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Coëmgenu » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:14 am

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:07 am
Coëmgenu wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:01 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:53 am


:D I suppose I was wrong then, my first post was just a possible explanation in case the guess someone else made regarding the use of the article in Spanish was correct. In this case, maybe it is San La Muerte that is the exception for a similar reason.
I just found "Santa La Maria" in Italian on the Internet. That should be similarly ungrammatical. I guess anything flies in this world! The grammar Nazis have been defeated!
I will ask a native speaker out of curiosity, if I don't forget.
"Santa la Maria" should be unambiguously wrong in either Spanish or Italian. Santa 'la' Muerte is more ambiguous, since she isn't recognized by any official party, and as such, has no 'official' name, even the long name on that wikipedia article, Nuestra Señora de la Santa Muerte, is an artificially created title, based on the formula that makes names like "Nuestra Señora de la Santa Cueva", or "Nuestra Señora de la Santa X".

I suspect that the Spanish speaker would say that either is fine, since you can treat "death" as a personal name or as a general noun. However "saints" to not have 'general nouns' as their name. Even Santo Padre is called Padre because that is his 'name'.

For instance, Santo Cristóbal is another mythological saint, which has a similarly "fake" name, his name means "carrier of Christ". That is why I pointed out that just as it is not "Santo el Cristóbal", "Santa la Muerte" is similarly incorrect.

Of course, people will do what they want and call her what they want regardless of what is "correct" according to whoever.
世尊在靈山會上拈華示眾眾皆默然唯迦葉破顏微笑世尊云
The Lord dwelt at the Vulture Peak with the assembly and plucked a flower as a teaching. The myriad totality were silent, save for Kāśyapa, whose face cracked in a faint smile. The Lord spoke.
吾有正法眼藏涅槃妙心實相無相微妙法門不立文字教外別傳付囑摩訶迦葉。
I have the treasure of the true dharma eye, I have nirvāṇa as wondrous citta, I know signless dharmatā, the subtle dharma-gate, which is not standing on written word, which is external to scriptures, which is a special dispensation, which is entrusted to Mahākāśyapa.

नस्वातोनापिपरतोनद्वाभ्यांनाप्यहेतुतः
उत्पन्नाजातुविद्यन्तेभावाःक्वचनकेचन

climb-up
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by climb-up » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:37 am

Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 am
As Vasana said previously, "Obsession with the supernatural is probably a stronger mara than any genuine encounter so bear that in mind long term."
Turns out to be VERY true.
Her followers here think it's a way to "honor the Aztec traditions" and their culture/ethnicity.
Also, according to one of them(I'll keep it anonymous as it doesn't like to reveal it's identity), pus is fine, but blood is more preferable if offering bodily parts, but better off regular foods, clothes, money, etc.
It's not like last time where I tried pis, poop, blood, and pus all together as an offering(without the semen, I'm not going that far) to the dharmapalas, remember?

Just an FYI, mind my ignorance. It's a constant thing that hasn't been tamed fully in spirituality, so don't get to attached and angry over it.
Anyhow, Merci Beaucoup!
:roll:
Lmao, I have no attachments to your ignorance and am not angry at your actions (my post was rhetorically worded to make a point) although I am confused at your apparent continued willful ignorance, your asking for advice that you don't follow and your lack of awareness of the appropriateness, or lack thereof, of asking particular questions in particular places.

What is it, precisely, that you want?
Magical powers?
Cheap thrills and association with the 'dark side?'
Still looking to kill folks?
If your not going to listen to the advice you receive on this forum, why keep asking for it?

Those are actually serious questions for you, that you also did not answer on the dharamapala thread you started.
You seem to ask straightforward questions, but when you get straightforward answers you don't listen.
Generally that means that your real question is something different. If you ask your real question, you might get a useful answer.

If you want to worship Santa Muerte, go ahead.
You can consider yourself Buddhist, or not, and do whatever you feel like doing;
but if you go to a Buddhist forum and ask about her, you will be told that she is not a Buddhist deity.
This is pretty clear, in fact it happened.
If you decide to work with her regardless, this does not seem like the most appropriate place to ask for advice.
Find people who are part of her tradition, read books on her, go to internet forums where people interact with her.

If your friend who said popping you pimples for Santa Muerte is a good idea is such an expert of her practices, histories and traditions and your going to work with her, why are you asking questions here about it?
If that's the case, talk to your friend and do her practice. You'll either get in touch with her or not and, if you do, you'll find out real quick what she thinks.
My rhetorical flourish was to illustrate that, from my humble personal perspective as someone who works with spirits, that what you explained was ridiculous and rude.
Don't be attached to thinking what your doing is okay or a good idea, or expecting people to support in doing whatever you want.
Last edited by climb-up on Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

climb-up
Posts: 430
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by climb-up » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:50 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:43 pm
They have terrific senses of humour, according to my grandmother, who practically based her life around her belief in them.
She sounds great!
Is she still alive? If not I hope you had long talks with her, I missed some interesting parts of my families history when my grandma passed.
Coëmgenu wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:46 pm
CedarTree wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:28 pm
The bold was insanely good!
But can one say the same thing about 'folk Buddhism' being the definitive Buddhism as one would say of 'folk' Catholicism being the definitive Catholicism as per the quote you responded to?

Is my boyfriend's Vietnamese hairdresser's Buddhism definitive? "Buddha would give us a second chance, what is why we are reborn?"
Well, from my perspective, the defense of folk Catholicism isn't about saying that it's the definitive Catholicism, only that it's legitimate and that the 'official' story isn't the only one.

As for folk Buddhism, that is a great question. I am no expert, but I have thought about it, and have so many thoughts on the topic that I don't know where to start.
I think folk Buddhism is important and fascinating, and there are many traditions and practices that get left out or lost in translation in Buddhism's journey to the west (many here, maybe you, will know WAY more about this than me; this is just my perspective). Reading about Tibetan history I see lots of interesting stories of tensions between officials and monasteries and their way of life and enlightened yogis and practitioners; there is clearly some good stuff going on outside of the mainstream.
Which parts are good, or bad, or whatever I don't know. I think coming into a practice from another culture from the one on which you were raised (as is the case, I suspect, with most of us) is a fascinating journey that is frought with difficulties.

That was rambly. My point, to sum up and repeat:
Great question. Wish I knew!

Tenma
Posts: 545
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:58 am

climb-up wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:37 am
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 am
As Vasana said previously, "Obsession with the supernatural is probably a stronger mara than any genuine encounter so bear that in mind long term."
Turns out to be VERY true.
Her followers here think it's a way to "honor the Aztec traditions" and their culture/ethnicity.
Also, according to one of them(I'll keep it anonymous as it doesn't like to reveal it's identity), pus is fine, but blood is more preferable if offering bodily parts, but better off regular foods, clothes, money, etc.
It's not like last time where I tried pis, poop, blood, and pus all together as an offering(without the semen, I'm not going that far) to the dharmapalas, remember?

Just an FYI, mind my ignorance. It's a constant thing that hasn't been tamed fully in spirituality, so don't get to attached and angry over it.
Anyhow, Merci Beaucoup!
:roll:
Lmao, I have no attachments to your ignorance and am not angry at your actions (my post was rhetorically worded to make a point) although I am confused at your apparent continued willful ignorance, your asking for advice that you don't follow and your lack of awareness of the appropriateness, or lack thereof, of asking particular questions in particular places.

What is it, precisely, that you want?
Magical powers?
Cheap thrills and association with the 'dark side?'
Still looking to kill folks?
If your not going to listen to the advice you receive on this forum, why keep asking for it?

Those are actually serious questions for you, that you also did not answer on the dharamapala thread you started.
You seem to ask straightforward questions, but when you get straightforward answers you don't listen.
Generally that means that your real question is something different. If you ask your real question, you might get a useful answer.

If you want to worship Santa Muerte, go ahead.
You can consider yourself Buddhist, or not, and do whatever you feel like doing;
but if you go to a Buddhist forum and ask about her, you will be told that she is not a Buddhist deity.
This is pretty clear, in fact it happened.
If you decide to work with her regardless, this does not seem like the most appropriate place to ask for advice.
Find people who are part of her tradition, read books on her, go to internet forums where people interact with her.

If your friend who said popping you pimples for Santa Muerte is a good idea is such an expert of her practices, histories and traditions and your going to work with her, why are you asking questions here about it?
If that's the case, talk to your friend and do her practice. You'll either get in touch with her or not and, if you do, you'll find out real quick what she thinks.
My rhetorical flourish was to illustrate that, from my humble personal perspective as someone who works with spirits, that what you explained was ridiculous and rude.
Don't be attached to thinking what your doing is okay or a good idea, or expecting people to support in doing whatever you want.
Perhaps I may be vague, but I think I forgot to put one more part that may have been the major part that should've answered my question in full.

How come the practices of Palden Lhamo give the same "feeling" as Chenrezig and Tara(and Saraswati) every time I meditate on her? Just curious on why a dharmapala practice like that would give the effect of peaceful deity without need of an empowerment such as Chenrezig. Nothing with the sharp headaches during mantra recitation(as was the case of my guru's online Mahakala Panjara sadhana when attempting Ekajati's mantra), but the same "good" feeling as Chenrezig. Explanation? Or is this just "Get out of my sadhana now!" sign?
While Palden Lhamo(and even Dorje Yudronma for some strange reason) gives this, the Simhamukha one gives a rather "lightening" feeling of being cleaned. Is that a warning sign of "get out of my sadhana now!" or a good thing?
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Motova
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:14 am

Motova wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:04 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:00 pm
Tenma,

I've bit my tongue for a while now when reading your posts. Buddhadharma is not a fantasy game. Please either work directly under a Teacher or content yourself for the time being simply reading sutras. As stated above, you're gonna get hurt. Several others have already made this recommendation to you. Please take it to heart.
:good:
:good:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Motova
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:15 am

:good:
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:14 am
Motova wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:04 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:00 pm
Tenma,

I've bit my tongue for a while now when reading your posts. Buddhadharma is not a fantasy game. Please either work directly under a Teacher or content yourself for the time being simply reading sutras. As stated above, you're gonna get hurt. Several others have already made this recommendation to you. Please take it to heart.
:good:
:good:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Motova
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:16 am

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:14 am
Motova wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:04 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:00 pm
Tenma,

I've bit my tongue for a while now when reading your posts. Buddhadharma is not a fantasy game. Please either work directly under a Teacher or content yourself for the time being simply reading sutras. As stated above, you're gonna get hurt. Several others have already made this recommendation to you. Please take it to heart.
:good:
:good:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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