Santa La Muerte

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Ricky
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Ricky » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:20 am

Stick to buddhist practices Tenma. They will do you better in the long haul.

PeterC
Posts: 295
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by PeterC » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:34 am

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:07 am

I will ask a native speaker out of curiosity, if I don't forget.
FWIW - not a native speaker but I used to live in Mexico and speak fluent Spanish, and I only ever heard people call her Santa Muerte, never Santa La Muerte.

Tenma, seriously, if you want to practice the Dharma, practice the Dharma. Living in a remote area is no excuse - plenty of teachers and teachings are available over this newly-invented internetwork thing. Or read a book. Just don’t be making blood offerings to skeletons.

climb-up
Posts: 413
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by climb-up » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:09 am

PeterC wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:34 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:07 am

I will ask a native speaker out of curiosity, if I don't forget.
FWIW - not a native speaker but I used to live in Mexico and speak fluent Spanish, and I only ever heard people call her Santa Muerte, never Santa La Muerte.
Settles it.
A quick google search for Santa La Muerte only brings up results for La Santa Muerte.

climb-up
Posts: 413
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by climb-up » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:15 am

Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:58 am
climb-up wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:37 am
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 am
As Vasana said previously, "Obsession with the supernatural is probably a stronger mara than any genuine encounter so bear that in mind long term."
Turns out to be VERY true.
Her followers here think it's a way to "honor the Aztec traditions" and their culture/ethnicity.
Also, according to one of them(I'll keep it anonymous as it doesn't like to reveal it's identity), pus is fine, but blood is more preferable if offering bodily parts, but better off regular foods, clothes, money, etc.
It's not like last time where I tried pis, poop, blood, and pus all together as an offering(without the semen, I'm not going that far) to the dharmapalas, remember?

Just an FYI, mind my ignorance. It's a constant thing that hasn't been tamed fully in spirituality, so don't get to attached and angry over it.
Anyhow, Merci Beaucoup!
:roll:
Lmao, I have no attachments to your ignorance and am not angry at your actions (my post was rhetorically worded to make a point) although I am confused at your apparent continued willful ignorance, your asking for advice that you don't follow and your lack of awareness of the appropriateness, or lack thereof, of asking particular questions in particular places.

What is it, precisely, that you want?
Magical powers?
Cheap thrills and association with the 'dark side?'
Still looking to kill folks?
If your not going to listen to the advice you receive on this forum, why keep asking for it?

Those are actually serious questions for you, that you also did not answer on the dharamapala thread you started.
You seem to ask straightforward questions, but when you get straightforward answers you don't listen.
Generally that means that your real question is something different. If you ask your real question, you might get a useful answer.

If you want to worship Santa Muerte, go ahead.
You can consider yourself Buddhist, or not, and do whatever you feel like doing;
but if you go to a Buddhist forum and ask about her, you will be told that she is not a Buddhist deity.
This is pretty clear, in fact it happened.
If you decide to work with her regardless, this does not seem like the most appropriate place to ask for advice.
Find people who are part of her tradition, read books on her, go to internet forums where people interact with her.

If your friend who said popping you pimples for Santa Muerte is a good idea is such an expert of her practices, histories and traditions and your going to work with her, why are you asking questions here about it?
If that's the case, talk to your friend and do her practice. You'll either get in touch with her or not and, if you do, you'll find out real quick what she thinks.
My rhetorical flourish was to illustrate that, from my humble personal perspective as someone who works with spirits, that what you explained was ridiculous and rude.
Don't be attached to thinking what your doing is okay or a good idea, or expecting people to support in doing whatever you want.
Perhaps I may be vague, but I think I forgot to put one more part that may have been the major part that should've answered my question in full.

How come the practices of Palden Lhamo give the same "feeling" as Chenrezig and Tara(and Saraswati) every time I meditate on her? Just curious on why a dharmapala practice like that would give the effect of peaceful deity without need of an empowerment such as Chenrezig. Nothing with the sharp headaches during mantra recitation(as was the case of my guru's online Mahakala Panjara sadhana when attempting Ekajati's mantra), but the same "good" feeling as Chenrezig. Explanation? Or is this just "Get out of my sadhana now!" sign?
While Palden Lhamo(and even Dorje Yudronma for some strange reason) gives this, the Simhamukha one gives a rather "lightening" feeling of being cleaned. Is that a warning sign of "get out of my sadhana now!" or a good thing?
That seems like an interesting and fair question although, probably for another thread; it doesn't seem related.
I think that these things are not generally spoken of publicly, and I am not a lama so I wouldn't be one to answer regardless.
I think the explanations of personal reactions to practices are varied, and it isn't possible to diagnose from a general description but I suspect that the reason, if there is one, would have to do with you as a person, your history with the practice and your connection with the deity.

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Vasana
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Vasana » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:28 am

Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:58 am
climb-up wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:37 am
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:33 am
As Vasana said previously, "Obsession with the supernatural is probably a stronger mara than any genuine encounter so bear that in mind long term."
Turns out to be VERY true.
Her followers here think it's a way to "honor the Aztec traditions" and their culture/ethnicity.
Also, according to one of them(I'll keep it anonymous as it doesn't like to reveal it's identity), pus is fine, but blood is more preferable if offering bodily parts, but better off regular foods, clothes, money, etc.
It's not like last time where I tried pis, poop, blood, and pus all together as an offering(without the semen, I'm not going that far) to the dharmapalas, remember?

Just an FYI, mind my ignorance. It's a constant thing that hasn't been tamed fully in spirituality, so don't get to attached and angry over it.
Anyhow, Merci Beaucoup!
:roll:
Lmao, I have no attachments to your ignorance and am not angry at your actions (my post was rhetorically worded to make a point) although I am confused at your apparent continued willful ignorance, your asking for advice that you don't follow and your lack of awareness of the appropriateness, or lack thereof, of asking particular questions in particular places.

What is it, precisely, that you want?
Magical powers?
Cheap thrills and association with the 'dark side?'
Still looking to kill folks?
If your not going to listen to the advice you receive on this forum, why keep asking for it?

Those are actually serious questions for you, that you also did not answer on the dharamapala thread you started.
You seem to ask straightforward questions, but when you get straightforward answers you don't listen.
Generally that means that your real question is something different. If you ask your real question, you might get a useful answer.

If you want to worship Santa Muerte, go ahead.
You can consider yourself Buddhist, or not, and do whatever you feel like doing;
but if you go to a Buddhist forum and ask about her, you will be told that she is not a Buddhist deity.
This is pretty clear, in fact it happened.
If you decide to work with her regardless, this does not seem like the most appropriate place to ask for advice.
Find people who are part of her tradition, read books on her, go to internet forums where people interact with her.

If your friend who said popping you pimples for Santa Muerte is a good idea is such an expert of her practices, histories and traditions and your going to work with her, why are you asking questions here about it?
If that's the case, talk to your friend and do her practice. You'll either get in touch with her or not and, if you do, you'll find out real quick what she thinks.
My rhetorical flourish was to illustrate that, from my humble personal perspective as someone who works with spirits, that what you explained was ridiculous and rude.
Don't be attached to thinking what your doing is okay or a good idea, or expecting people to support in doing whatever you want.
:good:
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:58 am
Perhaps I may be vague, but I think I forgot to put one more part that may have been the major part that should've answered my question in full.

How come the practices of Palden Lhamo give the same "feeling" as Chenrezig and Tara(and Saraswati) every time I meditate on her? Just curious on why a dharmapala practice like that would give the effect of peaceful deity without need of an empowerment such as Chenrezig. Nothing with the sharp headaches during mantra recitation(as was the case of my guru's online Mahakala Panjara sadhana when attempting Ekajati's mantra), but the same "good" feeling as Chenrezig. Explanation? Or is this just "Get out of my sadhana now!" sign?
While Palden Lhamo(and even Dorje Yudronma for some strange reason) gives this, the Simhamukha one gives a rather "lightening" feeling of being cleaned. Is that a warning sign of "get out of my sadhana now!" or a good thing?
Feelings and practice experiences come ago. When it comes to our feelings in regards to the dharma and practice, what makes you 100% certain that every single instance of the arising of a feeling is any more a reliable indication than our regular feelings of attachmemt, aversion, ignorance, joy, sorrow, hope & fear?

Sure, certain practices under certain circumstances will yeild certain signs but you need a very strong degree of discernment to determine if you are just superimposing your own samsaric feelings onto practice/post-practice and lableing them as signs of practice. Many people feel happy and joyful after practice. That doesn't necessarily mean that that feeling is a sign of the practice per-se - it could just be the kind of happiness you get when you do something you know is good for you. It could be the feeling of rejoicing. It could be the simple intoxication that accompanies the 'honey-moon' period of Dharma practice that you're clearly in. Sooner or later, Tenma, the esoteric /occultish honeymoon will end ( or the supernatural fixation will intensify until real difficulties emerge from it) and it will then sink in for you that the 'real' dharma practice is renouncing, transforming or self-liberating dualistic thought and affliction. Sooner or later you will realise that you will have to live with your afflictions and ego under the painful conditons of samsara and the degenerate age until you are liberated. Only then will you perhaps think to get your Dharma priorities of study and practice in the order that is most skillfull for your circumstances. Real practice will mean increasingly seeing and smelling your own bullshit more clearly so prepare yourself for that in advance.

As for headaches and other pains - the same applies. Sometimes when I sit, my right foot and leg will feel uncomfortable and I'll feel fidgety. Or at other times, the eustacian tube that connects the ear to the throat will be inflamed and my hearing in one ear will become muffled. I could take these as signs of practice or I could see that they're just arising due to a confluence of multiple conditions.

Ignorance is also 'cunning' in that it is 'skilled' in making us ignorant of questioning what we take as certain to be true and completely ignorant to what we havn't even considered we don't know In other words, there are things we dont know and things we dont even know that we don't know. Remembering the latter category can be a sobering reminder not to be too sure about all these 'facts' we're so sure about.
Last edited by Vasana on Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Vasana
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Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Vasana » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:39 am

P.s -

Tenma, Are you practicing for the benefit of all sentient beings or is it really just for some supernatural thrills? You're what, like 14-15? In high school? At that age, you're still finding a sense of who you are as a person in this world, in your family, peer-group, society etc. Having an interest in the dharma at such a young age is an incredible blessing you have but also one that you can quite easily piss away by treating The dharma like it's an edgey fashion accessory to prop up your newly evolving dentity. Maybe this is my projection but I remember what it was like being a teenager 'forging' a social identity. Are you aware of that process and how it influences your outlook on life? Can you honestly say you are not mixing wordly dharmas with the dharma?

You should read Rechungpas Biography. Rechungpa was quite stubborn and unwilling to listen to the advice of others, especially the one person he should have listened to, his Guru Milarepa. This caused him a lot of unnessarcy sidetracks and deviations before he really recognised the gift of the teachings and their applications(Rechungpa is also linked to the Tenma Goddesses by proxy of Milarepa.)

We're all a bit like this - the point is to not make the path or samsara any harder than it already is. Following the advice of a qualified teacher is the best way to do this so take up Cone's offer for clarifying any assumptions and questions with the teacher.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Motova
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:19 pm

Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:39 am
P.s -

Tenma, Are you practicing for the benefit of all sentient beings or is it really just for some supernatural thrills? You're what, like 14-15? In high school? At that age, you're still finding a sense of who you are as a person in this world, in your family, peer-group, society etc. Having an interest in the dharma at such a young age is an incredible blessing you have but also one that you can quite easily piss away by treating The dharma like it's an edgey fashion accessory to prop up your newly evolving dentity. Maybe this is my projection but I remember what it was like being a teenager 'forging' a social identity. Are you aware of that process and how it influences your outlook on life? Can you honestly say you are not mixing wordly dharmas with the dharma?

I think he is 16-17.

I started studying the Dharma when I was 19, and received my first empowerments from HHST at 21. I am turning 24 in less than a month now, and I wish I would have waited until my age now to have entered Vajrayana. It's a confusing experience to try to still "find yourself" when you have a path emphasizing selflessness. I feel rushing into Vajrayana only postponed my development and hindered my practice. Also until you have a stable social identity you're easily swayed by peer pressure, and that isn't helpful at all for Dharma practice.

Vajrayana is really complicated, and if you don't have access to an authentic Lama whenever you need it it will get very very stressful. There are always so many many questions and when one doesn't get answers it can get very very stressful.

My advice is to stay with sutra and/or do tantric practices that only require lungs until your body and mind have fully developed. To practice Dharma requires a very stable and mature person.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Motova
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:34 pm

I also entered into a very weird world at the age of 17, having a certainty that magic and psychics are real is very powerful for a kid. But it's very easy to slip and have bouts of crazy. It's funny to look at past posts on here or on Facebook, or to observe past ideas and plans I had because I realize how crazy I was and they make me wonder what is lurking under the surface now. Actually this happens daily now. And probably as I become a better Dharma practitioner I will observe it moment by moment throughout the day and night.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Motova
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:56 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

climb-up
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by climb-up » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:08 pm

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:56 pm
Uh-huh, as if that sorcerer didn't know exactly what Mickey was gonna do! ;)
Gave him a taste of power and danger, saved his a$$ and put him back to work; now with a better appreciation for the path.

Reminds me of a story about a yogi (I think Swami Rama) who's teacher intentionally left a Tantra lying around, know that he would try it out. He successfully called on two giants, who he had no control over whatsoever and were about to eat him until his teacher intervened. :jawdrop:

Motova
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

climb-up
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by climb-up » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:12 pm

Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:28 am
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:58 am
climb-up wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:37 am
:roll:
Lmao, I have no attachments to your ignorance and am not angry at your actions (my post was rhetorically worded to make a point) although I am confused at your apparent continued willful ignorance, your asking for advice that you don't follow and your lack of awareness of the appropriateness, or lack thereof, of asking particular questions in particular places.

What is it, precisely, that you want?
Magical powers?
Cheap thrills and association with the 'dark side?'
Still looking to kill folks?
If your not going to listen to the advice you receive on this forum, why keep asking for it?

Those are actually serious questions for you, that you also did not answer on the dharamapala thread you started.
You seem to ask straightforward questions, but when you get straightforward answers you don't listen.
Generally that means that your real question is something different. If you ask your real question, you might get a useful answer.

If you want to worship Santa Muerte, go ahead.
You can consider yourself Buddhist, or not, and do whatever you feel like doing;
but if you go to a Buddhist forum and ask about her, you will be told that she is not a Buddhist deity.
This is pretty clear, in fact it happened.
If you decide to work with her regardless, this does not seem like the most appropriate place to ask for advice.
Find people who are part of her tradition, read books on her, go to internet forums where people interact with her.

If your friend who said popping you pimples for Santa Muerte is a good idea is such an expert of her practices, histories and traditions and your going to work with her, why are you asking questions here about it?
If that's the case, talk to your friend and do her practice. You'll either get in touch with her or not and, if you do, you'll find out real quick what she thinks.
My rhetorical flourish was to illustrate that, from my humble personal perspective as someone who works with spirits, that what you explained was ridiculous and rude.
Don't be attached to thinking what your doing is okay or a good idea, or expecting people to support in doing whatever you want.
:good:
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:58 am
Perhaps I may be vague, but I think I forgot to put one more part that may have been the major part that should've answered my question in full.

How come the practices of Palden Lhamo give the same "feeling" as Chenrezig and Tara(and Saraswati) every time I meditate on her? Just curious on why a dharmapala practice like that would give the effect of peaceful deity without need of an empowerment such as Chenrezig. Nothing with the sharp headaches during mantra recitation(as was the case of my guru's online Mahakala Panjara sadhana when attempting Ekajati's mantra), but the same "good" feeling as Chenrezig. Explanation? Or is this just "Get out of my sadhana now!" sign?
While Palden Lhamo(and even Dorje Yudronma for some strange reason) gives this, the Simhamukha one gives a rather "lightening" feeling of being cleaned. Is that a warning sign of "get out of my sadhana now!" or a good thing?
Feelings and practice experiences come ago. When it comes to our feelings in regards to the dharma and practice, what makes you 100% certain that every single instance of the arising of a feeling is any more a reliable indication than our regular feelings of attachmemt, aversion, ignorance, joy, sorrow, hope & fear?

Sure, certain practices under certain circumstances will yeild certain signs but you need a very strong degree of discernment to determine if you are just superimposing your own samsaric feelings onto practice/post-practice and lableing them as signs of practice. Many people feel happy and joyful after practice. That doesn't necessarily mean that that feeling is a sign of the practice per-se - it could just be the kind of happiness you get when you do something you know is good for you. It could be the feeling of rejoicing. It could be the simple intoxication that accompanies the 'honey-moon' period of Dharma practice that you're clearly in. Sooner or later, Tenma, the esoteric /occultish honeymoon will end ( or the supernatural fixation will intensify until real difficulties emerge from it) and it will then sink in for you that the 'real' dharma practice is renouncing, transforming or self-liberating dualistic thought and affliction. Sooner or later you will realise that you will have to live with your afflictions and ego under the painful conditons of samsara and the degenerate age until you are liberated. Only then will you perhaps think to get your Dharma priorities of study and practice in the order that is most skillfull for your circumstances. Real practice will mean increasingly seeing and smelling your own bullshit more clearly so prepare yourself for that in advance.

As for headaches and other pains - the same applies. Sometimes when I sit, my right foot and leg will feel uncomfortable and I'll feel fidgety. Or at other times, the eustacian tube that connects the ear to the throat will be inflamed and my hearing in one ear will become muffled. I could take these as signs of practice or I could see that they're just arising due to a confluence of multiple conditions.

Ignorance is also 'cunning' in that it is 'skilled' in making us ignorant of questioning what we take as certain to be true and completely ignorant to what we havn't even considered we don't know In other words, there are things we dont know and things we dont even know that we don't know. Remembering the latter category can be a sobering reminder not to be too sure about all these 'facts' we're so sure about.
:good:
Very well put.

Tenma, have you seen Trungpa's "Cutting through Spiritual Materialism" book?
It's probably at your library if you can't buy, and certainly on the interwebs somewhere.
You might find it very helpful in re: this.

Motova
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:13 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Tenma
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:18 pm

Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:39 am
P.s -

Tenma, Are you practicing for the benefit of all sentient beings or is it really just for some supernatural thrills? You're what, like 14-15? In high school? At that age, you're still finding a sense of who you are as a person in this world, in your family, peer-group, society etc. Having an interest in the dharma at such a young age is an incredible blessing you have but also one that you can quite easily piss away by treating The dharma like it's an edgey fashion accessory to prop up your newly evolving dentity. Maybe this is my projection but I remember what it was like being a teenager 'forging' a social identity. Are you aware of that process and how it influences your outlook on life? Can you honestly say you are not mixing wordly dharmas with the dharma?

You should read Rechungpas Biography. Rechungpa was quite stubborn and unwilling to listen to the advice of others, especially the one person he should have listened to, his Guru Milarepa. This caused him a lot of unnessarcy sidetracks and deviations before he really recognised the gift of the teachings and their applications(Rechungpa is also linked to the Tenma Goddesses by proxy of Milarepa.)

We're all a bit like this - the point is to not make the path or samsara any harder than it already is. Following the advice of a qualified teacher is the best way to do this so take up Cone's offer for clarifying any assumptions and questions with the teacher.
Yes, I'm 14 this year. These are for the sake of all beings(unlike 7th-8th grade on killing), especially Vajrasattva and Saraswati. I don't show my Buddhist path to anyone, except here and my own lama, but no one physically. Since Buddhism is "Satanism" and "witchcraft," I have to hide my faith, so I depend on dharmapalas for help, more so those who are forms of my own personal deity(wrathful Saraswati as Palden Lhamo) and some of their retinue.
For example, I once made a paper prayer wheel that I had to hide and depended on the dharmapalas to protect it like a terma. The same with some mantras I wrote down and concealed very carefully above doors like "Om Padmo Ushnisha..." So I have to depend on dharmapalas for help in these things and for the spiritual path(help on local spirits, astrological influences, connecting with the guru, etc.).
Worldly deities like Santa Muerte are only for help in worldly life(studies, rivals, etc.) as dharmapalas aren't really useful in it(except for the one time incident when I almost jay walked).
Now, I know that you might be asking on Tara, but there was a problem. She isn't effective and I've tried many times, a daily 21 praises with visualization. Only gave the partial feelings of Vajrasattva and nothing more.
So yeah, unless there's a better way to solve all of this.

Motova
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:21 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:18 pm
Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:39 am
P.s -

Tenma, Are you practicing for the benefit of all sentient beings or is it really just for some supernatural thrills? You're what, like 14-15? In high school? At that age, you're still finding a sense of who you are as a person in this world, in your family, peer-group, society etc. Having an interest in the dharma at such a young age is an incredible blessing you have but also one that you can quite easily piss away by treating The dharma like it's an edgey fashion accessory to prop up your newly evolving dentity. Maybe this is my projection but I remember what it was like being a teenager 'forging' a social identity. Are you aware of that process and how it influences your outlook on life? Can you honestly say you are not mixing wordly dharmas with the dharma?

You should read Rechungpas Biography. Rechungpa was quite stubborn and unwilling to listen to the advice of others, especially the one person he should have listened to, his Guru Milarepa. This caused him a lot of unnessarcy sidetracks and deviations before he really recognised the gift of the teachings and their applications(Rechungpa is also linked to the Tenma Goddesses by proxy of Milarepa.)

We're all a bit like this - the point is to not make the path or samsara any harder than it already is. Following the advice of a qualified teacher is the best way to do this so take up Cone's offer for clarifying any assumptions and questions with the teacher.
Yes, I'm 14 this year. These are for the sake of all beings(unlike 7th-8th grade on killing), especially Vajrasattva and Saraswati. I don't show my Buddhist path to anyone, except here and my own lama, but no one physically. Since Buddhism is "Satanism" and "witchcraft," I have to hide my faith, so I depend on dharmapalas for help, more so those who are forms of my own personal deity(wrathful Saraswati as Palden Lhamo) and some of their retinue.
For example, I once made a paper prayer wheel that I had to hide and depended on the dharmapalas to protect it like a terma. The same with some mantras I wrote down and concealed very carefully above doors like "Om Padmo Ushnisha..." So I have to depend on dharmapalas for help in these things and for the spiritual path(help on local spirits, astrological influences, connecting with the guru, etc.).
Worldly deities like Santa Muerte are only for help in worldly life(studies, rivals, etc.) as dharmapalas aren't really useful in it(except for the one time incident when I almost jay walked).
Now, I know that you might be asking on Tara, but there was a problem. She isn't effective and I've tried many times, a daily 21 praises with visualization. Only gave the partial feelings of Vajrasattva and nothing more.
So yeah, unless there's a better way to solve all of this.
Have you received instructions and lung for the Tara practice?
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Tenma
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:24 pm

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:21 pm
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:18 pm
Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:39 am
P.s -

Tenma, Are you practicing for the benefit of all sentient beings or is it really just for some supernatural thrills? You're what, like 14-15? In high school? At that age, you're still finding a sense of who you are as a person in this world, in your family, peer-group, society etc. Having an interest in the dharma at such a young age is an incredible blessing you have but also one that you can quite easily piss away by treating The dharma like it's an edgey fashion accessory to prop up your newly evolving dentity. Maybe this is my projection but I remember what it was like being a teenager 'forging' a social identity. Are you aware of that process and how it influences your outlook on life? Can you honestly say you are not mixing wordly dharmas with the dharma?

You should read Rechungpas Biography. Rechungpa was quite stubborn and unwilling to listen to the advice of others, especially the one person he should have listened to, his Guru Milarepa. This caused him a lot of unnessarcy sidetracks and deviations before he really recognised the gift of the teachings and their applications(Rechungpa is also linked to the Tenma Goddesses by proxy of Milarepa.)

We're all a bit like this - the point is to not make the path or samsara any harder than it already is. Following the advice of a qualified teacher is the best way to do this so take up Cone's offer for clarifying any assumptions and questions with the teacher.
Yes, I'm 14 this year. These are for the sake of all beings(unlike 7th-8th grade on killing), especially Vajrasattva and Saraswati. I don't show my Buddhist path to anyone, except here and my own lama, but no one physically. Since Buddhism is "Satanism" and "witchcraft," I have to hide my faith, so I depend on dharmapalas for help, more so those who are forms of my own personal deity(wrathful Saraswati as Palden Lhamo) and some of their retinue.
For example, I once made a paper prayer wheel that I had to hide and depended on the dharmapalas to protect it like a terma. The same with some mantras I wrote down and concealed very carefully above doors like "Om Padmo Ushnisha..." So I have to depend on dharmapalas for help in these things and for the spiritual path(help on local spirits, astrological influences, connecting with the guru, etc.).
Worldly deities like Santa Muerte are only for help in worldly life(studies, rivals, etc.) as dharmapalas aren't really useful in it(except for the one time incident when I almost jay walked).
Now, I know that you might be asking on Tara, but there was a problem. She isn't effective and I've tried many times, a daily 21 praises with visualization. Only gave the partial feelings of Vajrasattva and nothing more.
So yeah, unless there's a better way to solve all of this.
Have you received instructions and lung for the Tara practice?
I've never received an empowerment. Just a recomendation. The only lung I ever had was Saraswati and Manjushri(not together, separate practices).

Motova
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:25 pm

Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:24 pm
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:21 pm
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:18 pm


Yes, I'm 14 this year. These are for the sake of all beings(unlike 7th-8th grade on killing), especially Vajrasattva and Saraswati. I don't show my Buddhist path to anyone, except here and my own lama, but no one physically. Since Buddhism is "Satanism" and "witchcraft," I have to hide my faith, so I depend on dharmapalas for help, more so those who are forms of my own personal deity(wrathful Saraswati as Palden Lhamo) and some of their retinue.
For example, I once made a paper prayer wheel that I had to hide and depended on the dharmapalas to protect it like a terma. The same with some mantras I wrote down and concealed very carefully above doors like "Om Padmo Ushnisha..." So I have to depend on dharmapalas for help in these things and for the spiritual path(help on local spirits, astrological influences, connecting with the guru, etc.).
Worldly deities like Santa Muerte are only for help in worldly life(studies, rivals, etc.) as dharmapalas aren't really useful in it(except for the one time incident when I almost jay walked).
Now, I know that you might be asking on Tara, but there was a problem. She isn't effective and I've tried many times, a daily 21 praises with visualization. Only gave the partial feelings of Vajrasattva and nothing more.
So yeah, unless there's a better way to solve all of this.
Have you received instructions and lung for the Tara practice?
I've never received an empowerment. Just a recomendation.
Then you can't practice it.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Tenma
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:28 pm

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:25 pm
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:24 pm
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:21 pm


Have you received instructions and lung for the Tara practice?
I've never received an empowerment. Just a recomendation.
Then you can't practice it.
Then why did my guru tell me to practice? That doesn't make any sense.

Tenma
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:25 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by Tenma » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:30 pm

Vasana wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:28 am
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:58 am
climb-up wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:37 am
:roll:
Lmao, I have no attachments to your ignorance and am not angry at your actions (my post was rhetorically worded to make a point) although I am confused at your apparent continued willful ignorance, your asking for advice that you don't follow and your lack of awareness of the appropriateness, or lack thereof, of asking particular questions in particular places.

What is it, precisely, that you want?
Magical powers?
Cheap thrills and association with the 'dark side?'
Still looking to kill folks?
If your not going to listen to the advice you receive on this forum, why keep asking for it?

Those are actually serious questions for you, that you also did not answer on the dharamapala thread you started.
You seem to ask straightforward questions, but when you get straightforward answers you don't listen.
Generally that means that your real question is something different. If you ask your real question, you might get a useful answer.

If you want to worship Santa Muerte, go ahead.
You can consider yourself Buddhist, or not, and do whatever you feel like doing;
but if you go to a Buddhist forum and ask about her, you will be told that she is not a Buddhist deity.
This is pretty clear, in fact it happened.
If you decide to work with her regardless, this does not seem like the most appropriate place to ask for advice.
Find people who are part of her tradition, read books on her, go to internet forums where people interact with her.

If your friend who said popping you pimples for Santa Muerte is a good idea is such an expert of her practices, histories and traditions and your going to work with her, why are you asking questions here about it?
If that's the case, talk to your friend and do her practice. You'll either get in touch with her or not and, if you do, you'll find out real quick what she thinks.
My rhetorical flourish was to illustrate that, from my humble personal perspective as someone who works with spirits, that what you explained was ridiculous and rude.
Don't be attached to thinking what your doing is okay or a good idea, or expecting people to support in doing whatever you want.
:good:
Tenma wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:58 am
Perhaps I may be vague, but I think I forgot to put one more part that may have been the major part that should've answered my question in full.

How come the practices of Palden Lhamo give the same "feeling" as Chenrezig and Tara(and Saraswati) every time I meditate on her? Just curious on why a dharmapala practice like that would give the effect of peaceful deity without need of an empowerment such as Chenrezig. Nothing with the sharp headaches during mantra recitation(as was the case of my guru's online Mahakala Panjara sadhana when attempting Ekajati's mantra), but the same "good" feeling as Chenrezig. Explanation? Or is this just "Get out of my sadhana now!" sign?
While Palden Lhamo(and even Dorje Yudronma for some strange reason) gives this, the Simhamukha one gives a rather "lightening" feeling of being cleaned. Is that a warning sign of "get out of my sadhana now!" or a good thing?
Feelings and practice experiences come ago. When it comes to our feelings in regards to the dharma and practice, what makes you 100% certain that every single instance of the arising of a feeling is any more a reliable indication than our regular feelings of attachmemt, aversion, ignorance, joy, sorrow, hope & fear?

Sure, certain practices under certain circumstances will yeild certain signs but you need a very strong degree of discernment to determine if you are just superimposing your own samsaric feelings onto practice/post-practice and lableing them as signs of practice. Many people feel happy and joyful after practice. That doesn't necessarily mean that that feeling is a sign of the practice per-se - it could just be the kind of happiness you get when you do something you know is good for you. It could be the feeling of rejoicing. It could be the simple intoxication that accompanies the 'honey-moon' period of Dharma practice that you're clearly in. Sooner or later, Tenma, the esoteric /occultish honeymoon will end ( or the supernatural fixation will intensify until real difficulties emerge from it) and it will then sink in for you that the 'real' dharma practice is renouncing, transforming or self-liberating dualistic thought and affliction. Sooner or later you will realise that you will have to live with your afflictions and ego under the painful conditons of samsara and the degenerate age until you are liberated. Only then will you perhaps think to get your Dharma priorities of study and practice in the order that is most skillfull for your circumstances. Real practice will mean increasingly seeing and smelling your own bullshit more clearly so prepare yourself for that in advance.

As for headaches and other pains - the same applies. Sometimes when I sit, my right foot and leg will feel uncomfortable and I'll feel fidgety. Or at other times, the eustacian tube that connects the ear to the throat will be inflamed and my hearing in one ear will become muffled. I could take these as signs of practice or I could see that they're just arising due to a confluence of multiple conditions.

Ignorance is also 'cunning' in that it is 'skilled' in making us ignorant of questioning what we take as certain to be true and completely ignorant to what we havn't even considered we don't know In other words, there are things we dont know and things we dont even know that we don't know. Remembering the latter category can be a sobering reminder not to be too sure about all these 'facts' we're so sure about.
Is feeling suicidal an effect? That did happen before a few times with Vajrasattva with the idea that occurred in my mind "what's the point of life? It's all a delusion, so is this body. Why should I live? I don't see any reason to live." Perhaps that's good sign that doesn't see like so(not that I should try!), or another form of ignorance? If all these signs are forms of ignorance including those of bodhicitta, then what is "true?" Sarasvati, Vajrasattva, Tara, Palden Lhamo, my root guru all give some feeling that all seems good, but are forms of ignorance? What is "truth" then?

climb-up
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Santa La Muerte

Post by climb-up » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:41 pm

TENMA!!!! This sounds like the question you've been hinting at the whole time!!! :smile:

Has all your talk about dharmaphalas and Santa Muerte been because you are looking for ways to stay safe practicing?
That is, of course, a super-legit question and certainly wouldn't get all the difficult reactions you're getting.

Lama Tsultrim Allione also gives lung for the 21 Taras through webcasts.
There are many ways to reach worldly aims through Buddhist practices, and many resources for receiving lung on webcasts. I think also, even from a Buddhist perspective, it's also fine to work with worldly spirits for worldly aims as long as you recognize them as such and don't take refuge in them.
Last edited by climb-up on Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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