Suicidal Thoughts

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Tenma
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Suicidal Thoughts

Post by Tenma » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:07 pm

Okay, so as mentioned in the Santa Muerte forum, I sometimes have suicidal thoughts coming up during samadhi and nowhere else. what is samadhi? Is it pure emptiness without thought? Or is it emptiness with realization in it through thoughts and thinking about it? I have no clue now on my practice.
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

pael
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by pael » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:12 pm

For me materialistic views produce suicidal thoughts.
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

Tenma
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by Tenma » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:16 pm

pael wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:12 pm
For me materialistic views produce suicidal thoughts.
Then what am I to think of? Pure emptiness?
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

passel
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by passel » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:20 pm

Bodhicitta.
Tonglen as skillful means, for yourself as well as others. Sila.
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious

marcofromM
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by marcofromM » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:24 pm

I urge you to seek professional help. I have seen many who tried to meditate suicidal thoughts or depression away. This never works. Please first seek to cure yourself and after that, your meditation will bring much better results.

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Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by Lobsang Chojor » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:25 pm

passel wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:20 pm
Bodhicitta.
Tonglen as skillful means, for yourself as well as others. Sila.
:good: these are what I've seen recommended for when people are depressed.

Tenma, try a guided meditation on YouTube by a teacher like Mingyur Rinpoche. IME this is something that's best learnt from someone, either in person or by video.
ༀ་ཨ་ར་པ་ཙ་ན་དྷཱི༔ Oṃ A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhīḥ

"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
  • Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5

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kirtu
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by kirtu » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:28 pm

Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:07 pm
what is samadhi? Is it pure emptiness without thought?
No, samadhi is just single pointed undistracted concentration. We actually do have momentary samadhi on some subject. Usually something negative, producing negative karma and more impure mind.
Or is it emptiness with realization in it through thoughts and thinking about it?
There is a school of thought that maintains that emptiness can be realized though reasoning. Most others maintain that this is just a kind of conceptual image of emptiness. Nonetheless it is useful to cut attachment.
I have no clue now on my practice.
Practice compassion and lovingkindness. For yourself and others. The Santa Muerte stuff is negative and attracts negativity.

Kirt
Last edited by kirtu on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

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Tiago Simões
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by Tiago Simões » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:30 pm

You should not look for answers for suicidal tendencies in an online forum, no matter how trustworthy that forum is. The best would be to be followed by a qualified medical professional. It is also against the rules of this forum.
kirtu wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:28 pm
Practice compassion and lovingkindness. For yourself and others.
:good:

Tolya M
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by Tolya M » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:57 pm

Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:07 pm
Okay, so as mentioned in the Santa Muerte forum, I sometimes have suicidal thoughts coming up during samadhi and nowhere else. what is samadhi? Is it pure emptiness without thought? Or is it emptiness with realization in it through thoughts and thinking about it? I have no clue now on my practice.
These thoughts are from the past unskillful actions that have cast your mind so that the cetasikas are acting the suicide way. It is the age of decline nowadays and near every first encounters such thoughts. I suppose it is necessary to understand that it will not be better from self-sawing due to cognitive distortions :mrgreen:
AKB: Dhyana as absorption is defined as an application of a pure mind on a single object, for the Dhyanas have samadhi or concentration for their nature.
The object of your samadhi is not mahayana sunyata as absence of samsara\nirvana dichotomy in relation to skandhas, it is not bodhisattva's concentration for the object is not brilliance of buddhavacana, it is not mundane samadhi for the pure mind is absent. Your samadhi is not good neither leads to good results.

Try brahmaviharas first having read the list of happinesses in Pali Canon for ex. Tadanga-nibbana is guaranteed for some degree.

I hope that something can be disassembled in my post because my English is bad :mrgreen:

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Vasana
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by Vasana » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:17 pm

Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:07 pm
Okay, so as mentioned in the Santa Muerte forum, I sometimes have suicidal thoughts coming up during samadhi and nowhere else. what is samadhi? Is it pure emptiness without thought? Or is it emptiness with realization in it through thoughts and thinking about it? I have no clue now on my practice.
You need to read up on shamatha and vipassana in a Buddhist context or ideally attend an introduction to Meditation course at a dharma center. The middling Stages of meditation by Kamalisha is a good text to start with. Traditionally, you begin with shamatha (calm abiding) and then introduce insight (vipassana) until you experience them simultaneously in a yogic direct perception. You need a foundational understanding of emptiness for this to occur.*

There are meditations where you engage in analysis and there are meditations where you don't use analysis and just look at the mind. Analysis is used to exhaust all conceptual possibilities. Alternating between analytical and non-analytical meditation or alternating between shamatha and vipassana is traditionally taught.

*The emptiness of self,others, phenomena, thoughts etc...in your previous posts you said that the thought of the body being a delusion brings about the thought of the body or being alive as pointless. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the emptiness teachings are there for. If however you experience suicidal thoughts on other occasions then you need to be honest with yourself and us on that. If not us then your school.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Vasana
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by Vasana » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:26 pm

The Middling Stages of Meditation. Ācārya Kamalaśīla.

www.lamrim.org.uk/bristol/download/stag ... ion_A4.pdf

A Clear and Concise Description of the Practice of Śamatha

by Khenpo Pema Vajra

http://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-mas ... e-shamatha
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

Simon E.
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by Simon E. » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:27 pm

tiagolps wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:30 pm
You should not look for answers for suicidal tendencies in an online forum, no matter how trustworthy that forum is. The best would be to be followed by a qualified medical professional. It is also against the rules of this forum.
kirtu wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:28 pm
Practice compassion and lovingkindness. For yourself and others.
:good:
Precisely. Suicidal ideation and samadhi have nothing in common.

(Not that I believe for one second that 98% of the people on Buddhist forums have any actual experience of samadhi)
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

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anjali
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by anjali » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:08 pm

Tenma wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:07 pm
...I sometimes have suicidal thoughts coming up...
Suicidal thoughts would not arise in samadhi (which is usually considered to be a state of absorbed concentration, although there are other meanings depending on tradition). Echoing what others have said, if suicidal thoughts are persistant and you feel a desire to act on them, you should definitely seek professional help.

A number of years ago, I was going through a particularly difficult time and found the help of a counselor invaluable. One of the things he said that stuck with me was, "How to kill the ego without harming the body?" He was a good counselor. He had the 10 ox herding pictures framed on his office walls.
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anjali
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Re: Suicidal Thoughts

Post by anjali » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:30 pm

Given the sensitive nature of the OP, and that DW is not a substitute for professional counseling, it seems best to lock this topic.
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