New Rigpa letter

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dzogchungpa
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New Rigpa letter

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:51 pm

New letter from 7 of the original letter writers:
https://whatnow727.wordpress.com/2018/0 ... yal-lakar/

Mods, feel free to move this to the main Sogyal thread which is currently locked.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Josef
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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Josef » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:55 pm

It's good to see them persisting.
The go and hide for a while approach probably wont work this time.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by philji » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:10 pm

Nicely worded letter, i hope it can bring a satisfactory result

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Grigoris
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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Grigoris » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:26 pm

I think they are flogging a dead horse. They are obviously wasting their time appealing to Sogyal's humanity and sense of duty to the Rigpa sangha.

Personally (and unfortunately) at this point and seeing the responses they have received so far, I think they have two choices:

1. The legal route.
2. The "forget it and go home and don't make the same mistake again" route.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Josef
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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Josef » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:37 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:26 pm
I think they are flogging a dead horse. They are obviously wasting their time appealing to Sogyal's humanity and sense of duty to the Rigpa sangha.

Personally (and unfortunately) at this point and seeing the responses they have received so far, I think they have two choices:

1. The legal route.
2. The "forget it and go home and don't make the same mistake again" route.
I completely agree that appealing to Sogyals humanity is futile.
However, the ongoing call to the Buddhist community at large can at the very least serve as a warning to others and hopefully give future practitioners perspective and an opportunity to be more scrupulous in whom they choose as a teacher.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:40 pm

In deed, we must check before receiving anything.
what are you doing

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Aryjna » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:50 pm

It seems a bit weird that they keep saying that they have seen greatness in him and that he can change. I don't know how anyone could ever take him seriously after all this. And as they do not mention anything about taking this to court or taking any action other than writing letters, they seem to believe that something may come out of it, which is obviously not going to happen.

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:59 pm

After seven months no-one has indicated there might ever even be something like an apology. Lerab Ling is lawyering up in France and suing someone for defamation who published a newspaper article or something. And some other lama is telling everyone the letter writers are demon possessed. What other choice do they have?
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:26 pm
forget it and go home ...
If you were at a teaching and you saw your teacher suddenly punch a nun in the stomach, you might do the latter but I doubt you'd be able to do the former for a good long while.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Aryjna » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:07 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:59 pm
After seven months no-one has indicated there might ever even be something like an apology. Lerab Ling is lawyering up in France and suing someone who published a newspaper article or something. And some other lama is telling everyone the letter writers are demon possessed. What other choice do they have?
Unless I misunderstood, there are at least several witnesses for different incidents. Rigpa has branches in many parts of the world, so perhaps it is possible to take Sogyal and Rigpa to court in a country where his behaviour is considered illegal.

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Miroku » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 pm

I kinda hoped the situation has resolved and that Sogyal left Rigpa, but seems like I was sorely mistaken. It is a great shame and he should start doing something to not clean his name and not clean the mess but something that would show he has some sense of guilt left. But that is just wishful thinking.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:11 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:07 pm
Unless I misunderstood, there are at least several witnesses for different incidents. Rigpa has branches in many parts of the world, so perhaps it is possible to take Sogyal and Rigpa to court in a country where his behaviour is considered illegal.
If even 10% of the allegations are true, he is a criminal. But he'd have to be extradited back to the US. Chances of that are slim to none apparently.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Aryjna » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:15 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:11 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:07 pm
Unless I misunderstood, there are at least several witnesses for different incidents. Rigpa has branches in many parts of the world, so perhaps it is possible to take Sogyal and Rigpa to court in a country where his behaviour is considered illegal.
If even 10% of the allegations are true, he is a criminal. But he'd have to be extradited back to the US. Chances of that are slim to none apparently.
As it is now none really cares about this whole story and Rigpa is continuing as usual, ignoring everything. If there is a legal decision there could be serious consequences for the organization, which is a good start, and also his crimes will be official. This may also help many of the current followers realize the situation.

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Josef » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:16 pm

Miroku wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 pm
I kinda hoped the situation has resolved and that Sogyal left Rigpa, but seems like I was sorely mistaken. It is a great shame and he should start doing something to not clean his name and not clean the mess but something that would show he has some sense of guilt left. But that is just wishful thinking.
Seems like he is keeping his distance whilst having his flunkies run the operation.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Josef
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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Josef » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:17 pm

PuerAzaelis wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:11 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:07 pm
Unless I misunderstood, there are at least several witnesses for different incidents. Rigpa has branches in many parts of the world, so perhaps it is possible to take Sogyal and Rigpa to court in a country where his behaviour is considered illegal.
If even 10% of the allegations are true, he is a criminal. But he'd have to be extradited back to the US. Chances of that are slim to none apparently.
The US would probably prefer he just stay away, Osho style.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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PuerAzaelis
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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by PuerAzaelis » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:19 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:15 pm
As it is now none really cares about this whole story and Rigpa is continuing as usual ...
This thing may have consequences that go way, way beyond Rigpa.
Generally, enjoyment of speech is the gateway to poor [results]. So it becomes the foundation for generating all negative emotional states. Jampel Pawo, The Certainty of the Diamond Mind

For posts from this user, see Karma Dondrup Tashi account.

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by DGA » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:06 am

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:26 pm
I think they are flogging a dead horse. They are obviously wasting their time appealing to Sogyal's humanity and sense of duty to the Rigpa sangha.
They aren't really writing to SL, or SL alone. They are writing to a global audience, and in doing so, they are trying to demonstrate what their values are. They are performing. They are showing that they are the kinds of practitioners who assume the best in their erstwhile teacher and who try to see the best in others.

They are also showing a commitment to that dreaded bugbear, "western liberal values," by assuming that truth and reconciliation can be achieved through good-faith public discourse.

In other words, they are 1. taking the high ground in a way that is comprehensible to the Global North and 2. making sure it is well known they are taking the high ground.

Unrelated: Matteo Pistono's book on Terton Sogyal is worth reading, but I'm not sure what to think of his various remarks on Sogyal Lakhar, which seem contradictory to me.

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:52 am

DGA wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:06 am
Unrelated: Matteo Pistono's book on Terton Sogyal is worth reading, but I'm not sure what to think of his various remarks on Sogyal Lakhar, which seem contradictory to me.

I liked the book too. It is kind of odd that as late as 2014, when it came out, he would write in his "Author's Note":
I was also drawn to Tertön Sogyal’s teachings by observing Sogyal Rinpoche’s extraordinary embodiment and example of a Dzogchen yogi, and his immense kindness in revealing Tibet’s wisdom tradition through his own teachings.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by lelopa » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:40 am

Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:50 pm
It seems a bit weird that they keep saying that they have seen greatness in him and that he can change. I don't know how anyone could ever take him seriously after all this. And as they do not mention anything about taking this to court or taking any action other than writing letters, they seem to believe that something may come out of it, which is obviously not going to happen.
:good:
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:33 am

Josef wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:17 pm
The US would probably prefer he just stay away, Osho style.
Osho was jailed in the US. His follwers believe he was poisoned in jail, leading to his death by heart failure.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: New Rigpa letter

Post by Grigoris » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:35 am

DGA wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:06 am
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:26 pm
I think they are flogging a dead horse. They are obviously wasting their time appealing to Sogyal's humanity and sense of duty to the Rigpa sangha.
They aren't really writing to SL, or SL alone. They are writing to a global audience, and in doing so, they are trying to demonstrate what their values are. They are performing. They are showing that they are the kinds of practitioners who assume the best in their erstwhile teacher and who try to see the best in others.

They are also showing a commitment to that dreaded bugbear, "western liberal values," by assuming that truth and reconciliation can be achieved through good-faith public discourse.

In other words, they are 1. taking the high ground in a way that is comprehensible to the Global North and 2. making sure it is well known they are taking the high ground.

Unrelated: Matteo Pistono's book on Terton Sogyal is worth reading, but I'm not sure what to think of his various remarks on Sogyal Lakhar, which seem contradictory to me.
Basically they are trying to force him to admit guilt and apologise by (taking the moral high gorund publicly and) turning public opinion against him.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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