Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

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javier.espinoza.t
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Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 am

Hello all, the question is ¿is there a specific way to remove christian/catholic/etc baptism? I mean removing this in fact, not in an administrative way.

This is a personal choice, not a sectarian determination.

I searched a bit if there was the question already, but couldn't find it.

Best regards.
Identities are false and not true

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Aryjna
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by Aryjna » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:21 am

I am pretty sure that as you are now following a different religion you are already considered 'unbaptized' by the church.

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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by SunWuKong » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:55 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 am
Hello all, the question is ¿is there a specific way to remove christian/catholic/etc baptism? I mean removing this in fact, not in an administrative way.

This is a personal choice, not a sectarian determination.

I searched a bit if there was the question already, but couldn't find it.

Best regards.
I think you’re talking about excommunication? I’m sure they would be surprised; requesting it. If you are interested in reconciling these two religious directions, read how Marcus Borg addresses it.
"We are magical animals that roam" ~ Roam

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 am

I mean to remove this "empowerment", if you forgive me the expression.

I dont care very much on church burocracy.
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Norwegian
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by Norwegian » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:17 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 am
I mean to remove this "empowerment", if you forgive me the expression.

I dont care very much on church burocracy.
It dissolves with immediate effect by virtue of going for refuge.

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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:22 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 am
I mean to remove this "empowerment", if you forgive me the expression.

I dont care very much on church burocracy.
This should do it.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=an ... ORM=VDRVRV

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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by DGA » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:36 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 am
I mean to remove this "empowerment", if you forgive me the expression.
Stop believing in the power of baptism and it will have no power of you.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:44 am

DGA wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:36 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 am
I mean to remove this "empowerment", if you forgive me the expression.
Stop believing in the power of baptism and it will have no power of you.
Not that simple
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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:45 am

Norwegian wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:17 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 am
I mean to remove this "empowerment", if you forgive me the expression.

I dont care very much on church burocracy.
It dissolves with immediate effect by virtue of going for refuge.
Hmm
Identities are false and not true

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Quay
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by Quay » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:46 am

Yes there are quite a number of ways/rituals to do this. After all what is done can be undone.

Though as others have already pointed out, going for refuge has a strikingly good karmic consequence especially since Christian rituals are worldly and simply more of the Wheel while refuge opens the door to getting off the wheel.
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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Reibeam
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by Reibeam » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:10 am

I've always thought that this was an interesting topic even outside of Buddhism. I attended a Catholic baptism a few years ago ( I was brought up Catholic so it was interesting to see what happened to me) and although my Latin is not great I recognized that the baptism involved an Exorcism of any spirits that might be near or inhabiting the child.

I was a little bummed out that this child has no say in whether not they get to keep their spiritual entourage. I certainly like having invisible beings running around if they are useful and protect you from danger.

Baptisms, exorcisms and circumcisions. We're lucky if we can escape any of those as infants. :guns:

I am curious what do you mean "Its not that simple?"

I think if you take refuge and follow the Buddhadharma your good to go.

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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:22 am

If this is a strong obstacle then contacting Rinpoche would be a decisive solution.

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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:41 am

Reibeam wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:10 am
I've always thought that this was an interesting topic even outside of Buddhism. I attended a Catholic baptism a few years ago ( I was brought up Catholic so it was interesting to see what happened to me) and although my Latin is not great I recognized that the baptism involved an Exorcism of any spirits that might be near or inhabiting the child.

I was a little bummed out that this child has no say in whether not they get to keep their spiritual entourage. I certainly like having invisible beings running around if they are useful and protect you from danger.

Baptisms, exorcisms and circumcisions. We're lucky if we can escape any of those as infants. :guns:

I am curious what do you mean "Its not that simple?"

I think if you take refuge and follow the Buddhadharma your good to go.
I would say ethernalism idea is very sticky, and this stickyness is reinforced by the place this "empowerment" has in our mind. No need to say that everything in western society reinforces the idea (way of talk, architecture, litterature, etc.)

Also, when i went to my nephew baptism years ago, as i'm not against anything, i insist on this, had this conclusion: external influences on the baptized are not expelled, but replaced.

This is why is not that simple because let's say unconciously, or fearfully, etc., we cannot expulse this influence by thoughts. Most of us are just humans.
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by DGA » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:57 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:41 am
Reibeam wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:10 am
I've always thought that this was an interesting topic even outside of Buddhism. I attended a Catholic baptism a few years ago ( I was brought up Catholic so it was interesting to see what happened to me) and although my Latin is not great I recognized that the baptism involved an Exorcism of any spirits that might be near or inhabiting the child.

I was a little bummed out that this child has no say in whether not they get to keep their spiritual entourage. I certainly like having invisible beings running around if they are useful and protect you from danger.

Baptisms, exorcisms and circumcisions. We're lucky if we can escape any of those as infants. :guns:

I am curious what do you mean "Its not that simple?"

I think if you take refuge and follow the Buddhadharma your good to go.
I would say ethernalism idea is very sticky, and this stickyness is reinforced by the place this "empowerment" has in our mind. No need to say that everything in western society reinforces the idea (way of talk, architecture, litterature, etc.)

Also, when i went to my nephew baptism years ago, as i'm not against anything, i insist on this, had this conclusion: external influences on the baptized are not expelled, but replaced.

This is why is not that simple because let's say unconciously, or fearfully, etc., we cannot expulse this influence by thoughts. Most of us are just humans.
I think I understand your meaning.

I have found that when I'm feeling pulled away by a strong force that is out of my control, guru yoga helps.

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:08 am

As far as the church is concerned, baptism is permanent, though it does not stop you from following other religions. It is considered a sign of repentance and new life as well as the time that the christian receives the holy spirit. Of course, the spirit can be rejected.
For as long as space endures
And for as long as living beings remain,
Until then may I, too, abide
To dispel the misery of the world.
- Shantideva, The Way of the Bodhisattva

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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by Virgo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:14 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 am
Hello all, the question is ¿is there a specific way to remove christian/catholic/etc baptism? I mean removing this in fact, not in an administrative way.

This is a personal choice, not a sectarian determination.

I searched a bit if there was the question already, but couldn't find it.

Best regards.
Well, if you believe in it's efficacy, then by extension you should believe in the efficacy of receiving regular Communion, regular Confession, avoiding mortal sin and remaining in a State of Grace for causing you to be reborn in an eternal heaven with the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, all the Saints, and the souls of all deceased Catholics who died in Communion with the Church. Do you?

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:35 am

Virgo wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:14 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 am
Hello all, the question is ¿is there a specific way to remove christian/catholic/etc baptism? I mean removing this in fact, not in an administrative way.

This is a personal choice, not a sectarian determination.

I searched a bit if there was the question already, but couldn't find it.

Best regards.
Well, if you believe in it's efficacy, then by extension you should believe in the efficacy of receiving regular Communion, regular Confession, avoiding mortal sin and remaining in a State of Grace for causing you to be reborn in an eternal heaven with the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, all the Saints, and the souls of all deceased Catholics who died in Communion with the Church. Do you?

Kevin
Sadly, all evidence i gathered point that it has mundane efficacy only, but is intended, suppoused, to have supra-mundane efficacy. So yes, all that have efficacy, but in limitation.

But i don't whant to argue much, christians can be christians if they want. As HHDL say's, i don't believe buddhism is solution for everybody, and is the same for other religions.

thus, baptism is not of my interest and i received it without discrimination nor consent. I was, litterally, offered.
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:39 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:35 am
Virgo wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:14 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:12 am
Hello all, the question is ¿is there a specific way to remove christian/catholic/etc baptism? I mean removing this in fact, not in an administrative way.

This is a personal choice, not a sectarian determination.

I searched a bit if there was the question already, but couldn't find it.

Best regards.
Well, if you believe in it's efficacy, then by extension you should believe in the efficacy of receiving regular Communion, regular Confession, avoiding mortal sin and remaining in a State of Grace for causing you to be reborn in an eternal heaven with the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, all the Saints, and the souls of all deceased Catholics who died in Communion with the Church. Do you?

Kevin



, baptism is not of my interest and i received it without discrimination nor consent. I was, litterally, offered.
Then why the seeming concern over baptism?

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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by Quay » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:41 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:35 am
...thus, baptism is not of my interest and i received it without discrimination nor consent. I was, litterally, offered.
Then simply take the Anabaptist position which basically says since you did not experience it with conscious awareness and did not consent then it never happened.
"Knowledge is as infinite as the stars in the sky;
There is no end to all the subjects one could study.
It is better to grasp straight away their very essence--
The unchanging fortress of the Dharmakaya."

– Longchenpa.

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Virgo
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Re: Question about removing christian/etc. baptism

Post by Virgo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:42 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:35 am

thus, baptism is not of my interest and i received it without discrimination nor consent. I was, litterally, offered.
Well there has been much historical debate concerning baptism. People have debated how one should be baptised, what makes a baptism legitimate, including at what age one should be baptised, in Christian communities. This is why, for example, the Amish do not baptise one until they become an adult, and the person must make a conscious decision to be baptised. For those of us born Catholics, we didn't have that option. :)

Kevin
ངོ་རང་ཐོག་ཏུ་སྤྲད། །
ཐག་གཅིག་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅད། །
གདེང་གྲོལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བཅའ། །


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