The straying of new sentient beings

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Sherab
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Re: The straying of new sentient beings

Post by Sherab » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:02 am

Mantrik wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:24 am
Sherab wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:53 pm
I'm in the camp of those who think that new beings can arise because of the following:
(1) beings are countable phenomena and therefore can never be countably infinite in reality.
(2) the basis of a being has the nature of kadag and lhundrub, which implies that a being can spontaneously come into existence as a phenomena, and therefore, there is no possibility to the counting of the actual number of beings at any one time. In this sense, beings and therefore sentient beings can be said as "infinite" or more accurately, uncountable.
(3) the above allows for all sentient beings to be liberated at the particular time and for new sentient beings to be present after that liberation event.
(4) I remember reading a sutra that mentioned new beings and old beings but I can't remember which sutra was that. Could be the Sanghagata sutra or the Golden Light sutra, or maybe some other sutra.
If the existence of beings is not infinite and each us is reborn there can be no addition to the finite pool, therefore your premises fails.
In addition, if mental continuums are beyond our ability to identify then they cannot be counted.
It is a failure of comprehension, not logic.

Btw, I chose the wrong word "uncountable" at the end of (2). It should be indeterminate.

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Sennin
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Re: The straying of new sentient beings

Post by Sennin » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:32 pm

Edit: I removed the question because I discovered the answer.
Last edited by Sennin on Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.

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Malcolm
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Re: The straying of new sentient beings

Post by Malcolm » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:41 pm

Sherab wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:53 pm
I'm in the camp of those who think that new beings can arise because of the following:
(1) beings are countable phenomena and therefore can never be countably infinite in reality.

There is a teaching of the Buddha somewhere that the sattvadhātu, while infinite in number, is fixed, and does not increase.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Sennin
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Re: The straying of new sentient beings

Post by Sennin » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:10 am

Would it be correct to assert that Vajradhara is the sambhogakaya in the kalpa of Great Purity; and other buddhas who display awakening are nirmanakaya?
Thus, there is not a single one who has entered into this teaching who fails to attain buddhahood.

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Sherab
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Re: The straying of new sentient beings

Post by Sherab » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:13 am

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:41 pm
Sherab wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:53 pm
I'm in the camp of those who think that new beings can arise because of the following:
(1) beings are countable phenomena and therefore can never be countably infinite in reality.
There is a teaching of the Buddha somewhere that the sattvadhātu, while infinite in number, is fixed, and does not increase.
Interesting. Would you be able to dig up the name of the teaching?

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dzogchungpa
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Re: The straying of new sentient beings

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:21 am

Sherab wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:13 am
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:41 pm
Sherab wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:53 pm
I'm in the camp of those who think that new beings can arise because of the following:
(1) beings are countable phenomena and therefore can never be countably infinite in reality.
There is a teaching of the Buddha somewhere that the sattvadhātu, while infinite in number, is fixed, and does not increase.
Interesting. Would you be able to dig up the name of the teaching?

He might be referring to the Anūnatvāpūrṇatvanirdeśaparivarta. A translation and study of it can be downloaded here:
https://blogs.sub.uni-hamburg.de/hup/pr ... ionen/128/

I believe this is another translation of same:
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra14.html
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Sherab
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Re: The straying of new sentient beings

Post by Sherab » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:45 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:21 am
He might be referring to the Anūnatvāpūrṇatvanirdeśaparivarta. A translation and study of it can be downloaded here:
https://blogs.sub.uni-hamburg.de/hup/pr ... ionen/128/

I believe this is another translation of same:
http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra14.html
Thanks Dzogchungpa.

It seems to me that the answer from the Buddha was based on a perspective within ultimate or true reality. On the other hand, I was arguing from a perspective in the realm of phenomena. This is my take from an initial reading of this interesting sutra.

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